We interrupt your scheduled James the Least post to announce an exciting change here at Being Frank.
After some recent discussions with NZ Catholic regarding the future of the blog, it was agreed that for these new media properties to truly grow and expand, significant continued investment (in financial, professional expertise, content creation terms) will be required. However, given the limited resources of the paper, they have decided to focus on their primary business of producing a fantastic, national printed paper.
As such, the team at the NZ Catholic have been looking for a partner willing to invest in both the Being Frank blog and the 15th Station podcast network. That partner has come forth in the form of a brand new Catholic media organisation, Icon Media Limited. Formed by a team that includes some already heavily involved in these new media properties, Icon Media has some big plans for building on the great work already put into developing Being Frank and the 15th Station, to really take them to the next level in spreading great Catholic discussion and content throughout New Zealand and the world!
What does that mean for you, reading this? To start with, probably not a lot. 
Being Frank will continue in the same vein that it has already developed – a team of young, faithful Catholics being frank about their Faith and inviting you to join them in discussing and sharing your thoughts too. While the change in ownership means the blog is no longer directly associated with the NZ Catholic, we will continue to work with them in partnership to spread Catholic news and opinion.
So, day to day, things will remain the same with the only real changes being administrative behind the scenes. Coming in 2010, however, will be some exciting new projects and opportunities which we’re hoping to share with the Being Frank community, and that we’re hoping will get you excited and keen to join us.
In the meantime, we want to acknowledge again the NZ Catholic and the Bishop of Auckland, Bishop Patrick Dunn, for having the foresight and courage to help establish these properties, and for the great work they have done in steering the ship so far. We also ask for your prayers and support for Icon Media, and for those of us involved in the blog and the podcasts – that God will guide us and use these humble vehicles for His greater purpose.
If you have any questions, feel free to post a comment, or to contact us through the contact page. Otherwise, we now resume our normal programming (with James’ normal posts resuming next week).
God bless,
The BF Admin team
In other words, Being Frank is being privatised.
Instead of being under the auspices (albeit controlled somewhat loosely) of the NZ Catholic Bishops via the NZ Catholic newspaper, Being Frank will be owned and operated by a private company.
I suppose that at least makes rather explicit the reality that the agenda of some of those running Being Frank is not always fully in communion with the NZ Catholic Bishops.
God Bless
Oh Chris, you do make me chuckle sometimes.
Pax
Chris,
Oh my friend, you have no idea how wrong you are!
To be clear, this has nothing to do with “those running Being Frank” not being in communion with the NZ Catholic Bishops. 0%. You can check with Bishop Patrick if you don’t believe me.
It has everything to do with the NZ Catholic having to decide whether it was the best organistion to invest in Being Frank to take it to the next level. They’re a newspaper, so fair enough that that wasn’t where they wanted to head.
Of course, if they had more subscribers and more money, maybe they would have the resources required. Hint, hint to all those non-subscribers out there!
By the way, as one of those who has dedicated hundreds (if not thousands) of hours to this site, I take exception at your claim that I am not in communion with my bishop! I think that is quite an uncharitable thing to say, especially since not once have I had my bishop claim that I am not in communion with him, or any of his brother bishops. And he has had plenty of opportunity to do so.
So thanks for that Chris. Nice to know my efforts are appreciated.
James,
I give you full marks for spin, but a reluctance to continue to invest in a venture is not normally taken as a sign of confidence in the said venture, is it ?
Who owns and controls Icon Media Limited ?
God Bless
James,
I take exception at your claim that I am not in communion with my bishop!
What claim ?
I never said you are not in communion. Go back and read what I wrote.
God Bless
Maybe the Illuminati control Icon Media?
Chris, does your employer pay you to spend all this time on Being Frank?
I suppose that at least makes rather explicit the reality that the agenda of some of those running Being Frank is not always fully in communion with the NZ Catholic Bishops.
Well, considering I, Gavin Abraham, was the one (with help from the daily posters) charged with the day-to-day running of Being Frank, and my boss is the RC Bishop of Auckland, Bishop Patrick Dunn, I suppose it is my Lord Bishop and I who are not always fully in communion with the NZ Catholic bishops.
So, we’ve given people a forum to discuss their faith and the best Chris Sullivan can do is cast aspersions on us. Pure class.
Chris,
To whom then were you refering or implying i # 1 ?
Heat not a furnace for your foe so hot that it do singe yourself.
Norfolk, Henry VIII, Act 1, Scene 1.
Shakespeare knew a thing or two about putting your foot in it.
I would like to think that our merry bunch of atheists has brought the house of God into the House of Mammon. Let’s face it, before we arrived things were very dull and, frankly, unmarketable (apart from Chris of course)
KA
Its interesting – and consistent – to see that Chris’s socialist views trump all other considerations, in his opinion – private ownership is anathema.
Socialism – that political philosophical force which brought to the world the greatest death and destruction the world has ever seen.
Don’t worry Chris, I think he means atheism. You know how we atheists are morally bankrupt, eat babies for supper and would shop our own Grandmother for the price of a piece of crack cocaine
KA
Christopher #1
sometimes the things you say offer insights into your mindset.
CCC962 states ;
“We believe in the communion of all the faithful of Christ, those who are pilgrims on earth, the dead who are being purified, and the blessed in heaven, all together forming one Church; and we believe that in this communion, the merciful love of God and his saints is always [attentive] to our prayers” (Paul VI, CPG § 30).
since when was the Church limited only to NZ Bishops
perhaps you were thinking of CCC961;
961 The term “communion of saints” refers also to the communion of “holy persons” (sancti) in Christ who “died for all,” so that what each one does or suffers in and for Christ bears fruit for all.
I certainly feel in communion with our Bishops in this sense (esp beloved B Cullinane) but I am unsure who ’suffers’ and who ‘bears the fruit for whom’!
Pray for (and with) the communion of saints (for our Bishops!)
I don’t think Chris has a job. He’s from the leisured gentry class.
KA 11
dont you get it; Chris is the NZC editor!
what interests me is, who are you really?
Ah DV, don’t you know? I am the devil incarnate!
KA
Chris,
Well…
Sounds like you’re at least saying my “agenda” isn’t in communion. I’m keen to know – what do you think my agenda is? And why isn’t it in communion?
I’ll tell you my agenda if you like. It’s to use these new technologies as best I can to enable Catholics and non-Catholics alike to come together and discuss the Faith and what God wants for us.
How is that agenda not in communion?
Not in this case, no. The NZ Catholic was more than happy to keep Being Frank running as it has these past three years. It was more the idea of taking it to the next stage – i.e. launching more blogs and podcasts – that they recognised the value of doing, but couldn’t justify the spend of time and money. So they looked for a partner who could.
No conspiracy here Chris.
Is NZC still in management/ownership whatever?
Don,
If privatisation is the way to run things in the Church then why don’t we just go ahead and privatise our schools, our hospitals, our aid agencies, our seminaries, our parishes, our cathedrals ?
How Catholic is it for bodies in the Church to remove themselves from episcopal authority ?
Dei asks an excellent question : will the new privatised Being Frank now owned and operated by a private company, Icon Media Limited, still come under episcopal authority ? Or will it instead be answerable only to its shareholders ?
God Bless
bamac,
Being Frank is well known for a long standing and continuing series of initial posts attacking the bishops, their teachings, their various agencies and even individual priests. This fosters others to join in the attacks (one post by James criticising a priest’s homily got so bad that the whole thread had to be shut down).
One of the best initial posters on Being Frank, a young lady who wrote under the name The Captain, found the climate and the vicious personal attacks made on her on this blog so bad that she quit.
Others like Scribe have invited Catholics they disagree with to leave the Church – that is incitement to schism.
The Dumb Ox is particularly notorious.
How many continual attacks and criticisms of the bishops, their teachings, their agencies and their priests does it take before it becomes obvious that those responsible for all this are not always fully in communion with the NZ Catholic Bishops ?
God Bless
You’re not a morning person are you Chris Sullivan?
Here’s a thought: get off your high horse and go and set up a blog with the “The Captain”.
I’m sure you’ll pack em in…
Christopher;
I for one dont ‘attack the Bishops but I do call them to account for their acts and omissions.
It was acceptable for Paul to chastise Peter and if a pope isnt above being critised then what makes you think a Bishop is.
The Bishops are only criticised when they move from the Church’s teaching that they are charged to uphold (or they are silent on it).
The Church in the western world is in a crisis because dissenters were given free reign and good faithful obedient Catholics remained silent.
It is rich for you Christopher to take any moral high ground when you undermine accepted Catholic teaching on nearly every Catholic position. You make an art of this and the way you cherry pick (and misquote)the bits that suit you from Bishops statements and Church documents is tiresome.
You of all people are not in full communion (your words) with the Church and never will be as long as you have one foot in protestantism/buddhism/Islamism/’whateverism’ and just a big toe in Catholicism.
Productive robust discussion is one thing, futile posturing and misinformation is another.
JTL
why couldnt this venture be done under the current structure?
http://www.companies.govt.nz/cms/how-do-i/search-the-register/banner_template/CNAME
Is there still a partnership between NZC and Icon?
Chris,
Who said privatisation is “the way to run things in the Church”? All those things you mention are things which the Church has a long-standing history and understanding of. In many cases, they are things which are 100%-purely Catholic – i.e. things that we invented.
However, if you read up on your Vatican documents, you’ll see there are also plenty of avenues which are not the primary domain of the Church. In fact, we as laypeople are exhorted to take to these avenues and use our skills to better contribute to the spreading of the Gospel.
The internet is one of those things. The Church didn’t invent it, and doesn’t have a stellar history at understanding it. While this is improving, there is no doubt that when placing priority on funding, the aforementioned assets get more focus than blogs and podcasts. That may change, but why wait when there is a group of committed Catholics happy to pick up the baton, so to speak, and run as fast as they can?
Um…I’ll take not very for $100 thanks Bob. Of course that’s not what is happening here, but since when did reality ever need to feature in one of your conspiracies?
Being Frank is under exactly the same episcopal authority as it always was – that of anything run by Catholics who should be obedient to their bishops. Nothing has changed. Being Frank was never an arm of the Bishop, nor is it now.
See above. If it is formed and run by Catholics, then they come under that authority just like you do.
Accept it guys, religion is big business otherwise why would a secular organization want to take over? If they weren’t able to construct a business plan that showed a healthy profit they’d be mad and their shareholders certainly wouldn’t be happy.
I bet there’s more than one large conglomerate that would love to take over the Catholic Church. The profit they would make would be fantastic – let’s face it, all the contributions are exempt from tax and you don’t have to sell or manufacture anything except a dream.
Now I wonder if Icon Media will have to pay taxes on their new venture? Will they argue that it qualifies under the current laws as exempt?
KA
It is an interesting conundrum.
Isn’t this the beauty of the post-conciliar church Christopher – that laypeople can start and run ventures promoting the Faith off their own bat?
Isn’t that what the Council asked us to do – we are to go out and evangelise the world?
Okay – you can’t accept that Icon Media will do this appropriately (even though you know nothing about it); I can’t accept that CIT does this appropriately, but there it is.
Chris,
I was hoping you would read between the lines of my original comments, but apparently not.
I totally disagree that Being Frank is “well known” for that. But you’ve touched on the only problem we have ever had on Being Frank, and it’s not with the team of seven who post.
As I have had to explain time and time again to people who don’t understand the difference between poster and commenter, the entry bar to contribute to Being Frank is deliberately low. In other words anyone – regardless of how crazy their opinions may seem to some – can join our community and take part in the discussions to their heart’s content. As Being Frank’s most prolific commenter (by a looooong way), you know this more than most. Provided you stay within our usage policy, you can spend days commenting if you like…and you obviously do.
And good for you, and for all the others who read and contribute, and the multiples more who just read and don’t comment. For without you, Being Frank would just be a series of editorials with no commentary and discussion. It would be “old media”.
In the early days of the blog, one of the first questions we had to answer was going to be whether or not we were going to allow comments. Plenty of discussion ensued over this, and I pushed strongly to allow them. Then the question of moderation was raised, and I said that moderation/censorship should be a last resort – i.e. only when someone has really stepped over a line should they be corrected.
And this has been the model we have stuck with. And it has been the biggest bone of contention for outside observers who have not been pleased with the way some of the conversation on the blog has gone, because they have been unable to understand the difference between the team of seven who week in, week out try to share their opinions, and the hundreds of commenters who join in with discussion.
So, when the discussion following the main posts has gone on for 200-300 comments, and the topic has been threadjacked, and people blatantly ignore our calls for charity, and personal attacks are abound, that is when people (both inside and outside of the Being Frank community) have raised concerns. That very freedom of speech that I fought so hard to allow on the site has been the thing that has caused the most consternation.
And I wouldn’t have it any other way. Because if you don’t like what someone has said, then register a username and jump in and defend your point of view. Like I am doing right now with you.
But, Chris, as you often operate without all the facts, I urge you to try not jumping to the first conclusion that arrives in your head. Because, in this case at any rate, you are wrong. Plain and simple. No grey in the matter. Just wrong.
Again, look to the comments for why The Captain had enough.
Again, in your own passive agressive way, you are accusing me of being not in communion with the bishops, which is an accusation I take very seriously and for which you have provided no evidence. I look forward to your apology, but in the meantime, let me deal to what little evidence you have provided.
If the admin team were to go through and delete all comments and discussion ever made on this blog, shut off the comments section, refuse to allow people to register and comment, then there would be no problem. But then there would be no Being Frank as we know it.
I prefer the warts-n-all version, Chris, because that’s the one where I get to “meet” people like yourself: people who I very rarely agree with, who remind me what it means to have a totally dissenting point of view, who challenge me to find new reserves of patience and charity, and who remind me how amazing our Church is that people so different can worship the same God under the same roof.
But if we were to tally the scores mon ami, you have written far more words than I or any of the other posters I would wager that are out of communion with the position of our bishops and our Pope. So, before you get on your high horse and start crucifying us, how about you remove that entire forest from your own eye first, hmmm?
And also Christopher,
Catpain was not above her own vicious personal attacks – which you choose to forget; in fact it was her own vicious personal attack on Sarah Palin which prompted (when turned back on her to illustrate a point) her to leave.
One way traffic it most certainly was not.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Don’t give it if you can’t take it.
Still waters run deep.
A stitch in time saves nine.
timeo Danaos nunc dona ferentes
morning peeps,
well, this little thread is humming along
i’m going to come out and say it
you’re a hypocrite chris!
you critique and even attack everybody under the sun on this blog; you attack the pope, attack bishops all round the world, attack politicians, attack theologians, then react like a cry baby when some people here might anaylyse the theology of a bishop, priest, or layperson from this country
agreed. you’re acting like a pharisee chris.
i find it amazing that you complain about faithfulnes to the nz bishops, but support and back tui motu to the hilt
this type of behaviour from you shows where your loyalties lie: you’ll support any group which doesn’t like Rome and doesn’t like orthodox catholicism: islam, liberal-Anglicans, liberal nz bishops, liberal religious with an axe to grind, liberal religious who have lost their way think social justice is the only element of their call (tui motu), catholics who want to rock the boat in every direction, women priests, married priests, etc etc etc
you’re a complete hyprocrite
you talk about fidelity and communion with the nz bishops, and yet you continually and unrellentingly promote women priests – which to my knowledge, puts you out of communion with the nz bishops, not to mention the catholic church
anyway, even if beingfrank is private, as a catholic enterprise, it is still subject to the authority of the bishops, even if they no longer fund it. their authority is not realted to finances.
peace bruvvas
dave,
Got it in one!
FXD,
The difference is that CIT is under the direct control of the bishop. It’s his arm for Catholic education in the diocese. The same can’t be said of a blog run by a private company, can it ?
James,
Being Frank was never an arm of the Bishop, nor is it now.
I grant that the bishops gave Being Frank an enormous amount of free reign (perhaps too much) but the reality is that when Being Frank was operated by the NZ Catholic newspaper, which is owned and controlled by the NZ Catholic Bishops, then Being Frank did come under the authority of the bishops.
Under the change to private ownership, that direct line of episcopal authority will be severed.
Granted, not every lay initiative needs to come under the direct control of the bishops, but when one that does suddenly changes to private control then that is a very significant change and I think there are huge dangers in that (to be frank: a good deal of the Catholic Internet is a problem for the Church and it ought to come under episcopal authority).
What would anyone think if the Legion of Mary or Opus Dei or any other Catholic lay organisation which was previously directly under episcopal control suddenly up and removed themselves from direct episcopal control in favour of control by a private company ?
I’m sorry, but that isn’t the Catholic tradition and I think it will only worsen the problems at Being Frank.
The solution is pretty easy – why not submit Icon Media Ltd to the authority of the bishop ? I’m sure he’ll continue to grant you considerable free reign.
That’s what every saint did who wanted to start a new initiative.
Jose Maria Escriva thought he needed a new structure so he lobbied for it and he got it. I grant that there is a solid case for a form of episcopal control over the media which guarantees a large dose of independence and freedom. I don’t think you’ll have any problems getting the independence you need.
you are accusing me of being not in communion with the bishops
I said it before and I’ll say it again: I did not accuse you of that.
I take my hat off to you and Gavin and the others who have put in an enormous amount of unpaid work to get Being Frank started and keep it going.
God Bless
“The Dumb Ox is particularly notorious”
And good looking.
Maybe I should go all Gangsta and change my name to “Notorious DOX”, or maybe, “The Notorious, but ruggedly handsome, DOX”
Dei,
Is there still a partnership between NZC and Icon?
There is no official partnership, but as JTL mentioned, there will continue to be a symbiotic relationship. I suspect stories from NZ Catholic will be discussed on here and discussions on here may well lead to stories in NZ Catholic.
Chris,
I grant that the bishops gave Being Frank an enormous amount of free reign (perhaps too much) but the reality is that when Being Frank was operated by the NZ Catholic newspaper, which is owned and controlled by the NZ Catholic Bishops, then Being Frank did come under the authority of the bishops.
Just to clarify: The bishops (plural) have/had no jurisdiction over NZ Catholic, which is a vehicle of the Roman Catholic Bishop of Auckland, not the bishops’ conference — though we seek to be supportive of all bishops. Bishop Dunn, as the current occupier of the Auckland see, is publisher of NZ Catholic and, by default, was the ultimate owner of Being Frank.
By the way, Chris, what do you think about Tui Motu not falling under the bishops’ jurisdiction?
The solution is pretty easy – why not submit Icon Media Ltd to the authority of the bishop ? I’m sure he’ll continue to grant you considerable free reign.
The bishop could have vetoed the sale of Being Frank and The 15th Station to Icon Media if he chose to. That was his prerogative. He obviously had confidence in the people involved that they would do the right thing with the properties he and NZ Catholic established.
Ox,
Nah … none of them match the Aquinas allusion so befitting in your current moniker !
God Bless
Gavin,
Did I read that right : Being Frank and The 15th Station were sold to a private company ?
Exactly what was it that you wanted to do which you couldn’t do under the current ownership ?
And if financial resources were a factor, then where is the new money coming from ?
God Bless
Chris,
Yes, it was sold (why the bold?).
James has clearly outlined the reasons for the sale in the original post. I have nothing to add to that.
Chris,
Others like Scribe have invited Catholics they disagree with to leave the Church – that is incitement to schism.
Yes, and I stand by that. I think that there are certain fundamental teachings of the Church that must be adhered to in order to consider oneself a Catholic. If someone doesn’t believe, for example, in the divinity AND humanity of Christ, or the Trinity, or the Church’s teaching on abortion, I would wonder why they choose to remain Catholic.
I wouldn’t stay in an organisation whose fundamental tenets I couldn’t accept. It’s an honesty thing.
Scribe,
You have encouraged people to leave who were not in disagreement over fundamentals.
God Bless
I don’t quite understand what Chris is fussing about privatization for?
I didn’t realize that the Church was owned by the state, so that it could be privatized?
Chris, can you look into getting the Greens to nationalize the Church as a policy for the next election? That would suit our “pro-privatization” agenda just fine, because it is SO HARD to privatize something that is already privatized.
But seriously, it seems the Bishop of Auckland has been fine with BF or else he would be saying something to the people who run it (or maybe you are criticizing the Bishop for this omission??) and would be winding it up.
I doubt New Icon Media is the sort of company that is going to hire children in Thailand to work in a sweatshop to churn out blog posts attacking Catholicism, it will be a corporate structure that involves many faithful Catholics with experience in media and will be a way of formalizing their contributions to the new evangilization.
Pax
Chris,
Speaking of privatization and money trails, does your employer pay you to spend all this time on Being Frank?
Gee, private enterprise. If only there was a Commandment that allowed that; plead the 9th perhaps?
Ox: EmineNOx would so much more fitting! Will the real Ox please stand up?
SWCWAB
His employer probably pays him to stay OFF his work one!
Christopher #33;
you mean like the dwindling Sisters of Mercy who feret the orders assets (schools and convent property) off (paid for by parishioners and parent fundraising!)and hide them behind lay boards that cant be touched by Church authorities, placing accountability outside the Church as well?
This happening in the U S as well and is in defiance of Canon law!
Chris,
I have read these contributions for longer than I have contributed … in *40 you state that Scribe has encouraged people to leave the church who were not in disagreement with the fundamentals of the church … I can not remember reading one … could you give an example ?
shallom
Chris,
Jose Maria Escriva thought he needed a new structure…
I believe you mean SAINT Jose Maria Escriva.
cheers