Yet another piece of bizarre liturgical experimentation.
Watch the video, cause apparently Jesus bore the burden of ‘heterosexism’ and ‘cruelty to animals’ when He died on the cross too (I couldn’t find that reference in the Bible, so I’m guessing that they added that bit).
Oh, and apparently Jesus no longer has any body (”but although his body is gone, everything that he taught us remains. Christ has no body now but ours”).
I think that the final 2 minutes of the presentation are ironic – look out for the giant black satanic looking puppet which envelopes the gathered congregation in darkness.
Check out photos of this liturgy here.
And just to balance the insanity you’ll see in that video, here is a video of an article that was featured on Campbell Live last night.
It’s a story about some Catholic monks at a 900 year old monastery who are releasing a chant CD.
Notice the large volume of young male monks (other religious orders take note!).
It makes you glow with pride to see our boys showing the rest of the world what real liturgy and authentic worship music looks and sounds like!
Notice the distinct lack of drums, guitars, keyboards, posers with microphones leaping around like moneys on speed, and elaborate lighting rigs!
It’s a great tonic for the pain of modern bubblegum pop that has become so common in churches today.
Check out the video here.
I couldn’t find that reference in the Bible
The Jewish rabbis interpreted Genesis 9:4 as a universal law given to Noah (applicable to all of humanity and not just Jews) against cruelty to animals (one is not allowed to rip off the limbs of live animals to eat the limb) :-
On heterosexism, clearly the command in Letiticus to “Love your neighbour as yourself” rules out unjust discrimination on the basis of sexuality.
The first link is to a video which has been removed; which is probably just as well
God Bless
It’s worth bearing in mind that God is much more interested in social justice than in liturgical orthodoxy and beauty :-
God Bless
Chris,
applying that passage to the Mass has to be one of the most preposterous things you have EVER posted in this blog.
TTM
I agree, and that’s saying something.
The video is gone.
TTM – very true and very scary.
OK. In response to #2, I have several options.
1. Express very genuine shock and sadness at such a position from a professing catholic of any denomination.
2. Plunge into exegesis on the context of Amos, the robbing of the poor, the hypocrisy of Israel who were serving other Gods, the importance of heart religion and relationship with Jesus, and the impossibility of mapping a Biblical ideal of justice for the poor and oppressed onto any political programme in the modern period, of whichever variety, and the importance of right worship in purity of heart (cf: a truckload of verses in the New Testament).
If I do 1., we shall have a long thread about the iniquities of Anglicanism, our allegedly invalid sacraments, how Chris understands my Church better than the 39 Articles do, and how dare I call myself catholic. Also, Chris will throw onto the thread alleged examples of how the Church values liturgy over social justice, including but not limited to pacifism, Iraq and denying communion to anyone for any reason.
If I do 2. we shall have a long argument about the context of Amos, which Jewish Chris understands better than Anglican me. If I go to the trouble of formulating a researched position on Amos, it will be wrong, since Chris understands the long-lost meaning of the text.
So, I think on balance, I’ll opt for three:
3. Ignore it.
Chris, I am saddened by your position.
Hi all,
Apologies for that broken link to the first video – it seems to have been removed from YouTube.
The good news is that you can see lots of photos of this weird liturgy here:
http://fratres.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/in-honor-of-the-beast/
Having looked at the photographs, I have one question:
What fresh HELL is this?!
Allow me to commend your foresight and wise final decision, Andrewesman.
I don’t know why you guys are so surprised that God desires mercy more than sacrifice – Jesus and the prophets said exactly that and much of Jesus’ conflict with the Jewish religious authorities was over liturgical and legal nitpicking.
It’s a sad fact that this is still a problem in the Church today.
That doesn’t mean that orthodox and beautiful liturgies are not important.
But it does mean that there are more important things.
St. Joan of Arc is a parish well known for social justice work and, err, creative, liturgy.
God Bless
“The good news is that you can see lots of photos of this weird liturgy here:”
If that’s the good news…
jj
If you want to know more visit their website
I always say; “By their website you shall know them”
Well looking at those pictures they certainly put a tonne of effort into wearable arts. They must have endless energy if their “social justice” is as colorfully executed.
Compares well to the “interpretive” shenanigans people got up to in high school Masses.
Chris,
you wrote: “That doesn’t mean that orthodox and beautiful liturgies are not important. But it does mean that there are more important things.”
You have the order wrong there. There is no question when it comes to the hierarchy of importance that it is the Eucharist/liturgy first and social justice second, since the former is the source and summit of the latter. This is important because of the principle of first and second things – “when second things are put first, not only first things but second things too are lost” (Peter Kreeft, Refutation of Moral Relativism, p.133).
The Eucharist, which the liturgy serves, is in fact the fulfilment of the justice mentioned in the Old Testament passages you quoted above. I recommend you to have a read of Hebrews 10:
The apt maxim here would be ‘lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi’ – as we worship, so we believe, and so we live. As can be seen above, it is in joining with Christ’s self-offering – which is what Mass is – that we can have the redemptive supernatural gifts and theological virtues of faith, hope and love. It is the well of grace from which salvific love and good works can flow. Social justice taken out of this context may well improve conditions for the poor but would not be salvific; in which case, it is devoid of its essential purpose – “for what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?” (Mark 8:36).
This is why worthy celebration of the liturgy effects the salvation of the world more than any other act we can do on earth: Save the Liturgy, Save the World!. The contrary could also be said: Ruin the Liturgy, Ruin the World.
Yet, social justice is used by the ‘liberals’ as a means of creating heaven on earth, thereby appearing as a salvific force while ruining the liturgy and supernatural faith and authentic charity that follow, thus endangering the eternal souls of many – “and no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (II Corinthians 11:14).
Worthily celebrate the liturgy – which is Christ’s self-offering itself and therefore the source of all redeeming grace – and the rest will follow, for that is the promise given to us: “seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well” (Matthew 6:33).
Chris,
Martin Luther made a major muck up due to his univocal mentality, regarding the word “works” in letters of St Paul. St. Paul talks about the works of the law such as circumcision, and Luther takes it to mean all works, including works of charity. By that muck up he steers countless generations of protestants astray.
You have done the same with the word sacrifice. If you can’t distinguish the sacrifice of bulls and goats from the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, bad luck for you, but God can. And when he says: I want mercy not sacrifice, he is not talking about the latter.
Hopefully you won’t end up with the same following as Luther got.
I shudder to think of how far back that will set ecumenism.
God bless.
TTM,
I not saying the mass isn’t of primary importance.
I’m saying that liturgical orthodoxy and beauty come second to loving God and loving neighbour.
In the gospels Christ has an awful lot to say about social justice and loving your neighbour.
He has not one word to say about orthodoxy or beauty in liturgy.
Which is not to say that the last is not important, but I think we need to take a message from the priority the Gospels give these respective matters.
God Bless
poorclear,
Christ’s sacrifice is not salvific because someone killed him.
It’s salvific because its an act of divine mercy.
Sacrifice is not salvific. It’s Love that is salvific.
“I desire mercy, not sacrifice”.
The point of the mass is not just to offer sacrifice.
It’s to provide us the grace to get out there and do the works of mercy and social justice and that’s way more important than whether or not the mass followed the liturgical norms.
God Bless
If you read the front page of St Joan of Arc’s website, as linked to by Mac above, their works of mercy and social justice would put most of our parishes to shame.
Our liturgies might be more by the book, but few of our parishes even have a group working for social justice.
God Bless
Well judging by the resources Joan of Arc parish throws at puppet liturgies I imagine they find it easy to find yet more surplus time and money to do their “works of mercy”.
Putting all those poorer slob parishes to shame eh??
Christopher,
I really laughed when I first read this, because I thought you were joking. But I’m not so sure.
You are fortunate in your parish to have a priest who has things in their proper place. You may not have realised it, but the Divine Liturgy in New Zealand is, aside from a few places, in a downright shambles.
Works of mercy do rely on the will of those performing (or not performing) them – but that will is more certainly formed and strengthened by good liturgy, by the encounter with Jesus Himself, than by anything else.
FXD,
Yes, we are lucky in our parish to have excellent priests where the liturgies are reasonably orthodox, although the odd deviation has been known to slip in from time to time.
I do think it is important to strive for good and orthodox liturgy.
Greg,
As I understand it, the St Joan of Arc puppet liturgies are done by a separate group who specialise in that sort of thing.
God Bless
Chris,
“I think we need to take a message from the priority the Gospels give these respective matters.”
Have you read the Hebrews 10 quote in #15 above? It clearly presents the liturgy as the fulfilment of justice and righteousness, since it is the source and summit of them. To attribute the words “I hate, I despise your feasts” to the Mass is bordering on (or may well be) the blasphemous.
Liturgical orthodoxy and beauty are of primary importance precisely because our worthy celebration of it flows onto every aspect of ministry and apostolates – social justice is only one aspect among them, and second to the Church’s salvific mission.
I share FXD’s concern for the liturgy here. The lack of concern from the average parishoner is in itself a concerning sign.
The prefigurement of the Mass ought to tell us how we should approach it; anyone else other than the high-priest entering the holy of holies (and only then once a year on the Day of Atonement, after a meticulous preparation) would die simply for the fact that its holiness could not be tolerated by an average mere mortal.
Is it any wonder that Lincoln, Nebraska – the most vocationally successful and faithful diocese in the United States – has maintained a sense of the sacred in its liturgies?:
The only parish in New Zealand I have seen that comes close to this is at St. Mary of the Angels in Wellington, and only in its choral Mass. Everywhere else, the liturgy is often seen as a mere ‘communal meal’, than a sacred sacrifice at Calvary (which, the Church teaches us, ought to be the primary emphasis), and thus accompanied by bland or even pop’ music, and casual chatting in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament (in the church, that is). In most parishes the architecture also reflects this lack of the sacred. The sense of being lifted up to Heaven, joining the choir of Angels in adoration to approach the holy of holies, is nowhere to be found.
The fruit has not been particularly good: priestly shortages, dissent in the academia, poor catechises in schools, cafeteria Catholicism by average Catholics, and social justice which neglects salvific work.
So I repeat: lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
We ought to take particular note of Lincoln, Nebraska, and follow their example:
This is a case in point that worthy celebration of the liturgy goes hand in hand with:
1. Vocational success
2. Fidelity and co-operation between the hierarchy and the laity, and lack of debilitating dissent
3. Holiness and lack of infamous sexual scandals
Imagine being able to say, “Our Catholic schools have always been terrific here…We have also really been blessed with lots of young, enthusiastic priests … and I believe it’s easier for these kids coming out of high school to connect with that enthusiasm.”
TTM,
Quote me one line from Our Lord in the gospels which states the importance of orthodox and beautiful liturgies. Just one line will do.
While I fully agree that orthodox and beautiful liturgies are a good thing, the fact is that the Gospel does not rate them particularly highly in the order of things we ought to be focusing on.
And there are excellent reasons for that.
Everywhere else, the liturgy is often seen as a mere ‘communal meal’, than a sacred sacrifice at Calvary
That’s news to me. I’ve attended mass in tons of parishes and I’ve yet to meet even one where there seemed to be any absence of the sense of sacrifice among the faithfull.
God Bless
“Quote me one line from Our Lord in the gospels which states the importance of orthodox and beautiful liturgies. Just one line will do.”
“I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.” (John 17:4)
Christ thus presents Himself to the Father in heaven, through Calvary. This is the glory of the Mass, for the Divine Liturgy is Christ’s Heavenly Liturgy; a fulfilment of the high-priestly worship in the holy of hollies – “For Christ has entered, not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.” (Hebrews 9:24). This calls for respect for that most sacred sacrifice, without which we would all have died, being unable to present ourselves in the ineffable holiness of the heavenly sanctuary.
How could we dare to shape the liturgy in our own image, when we are supposed to be its servants for Christ’s sake? It is Christ Himself who is present, who is the high-priest in the heavenly liturgy, and we come in humility recognizing the sacredness of the sacrifice in which we have been allowed to participate: “Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world” (John 17:24). This is Christ’s desire, made clear here and through the delegated authority of the Sacred Magisterium – and we know Christ says of those He authorises, “he who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16). Do we place ourselves before Christ, or Christ before ourselves? The right choice and its fruit are evident enough.
“the fact is that the Gospel does not rate them particularly highly in the order of things we ought to be focusing on.”
Not true. It is, I repeat, the source and summit of faith, hope and charity (again, please read Hebrews 10 above at #15), and therefore of any salvific work including social justice (which, again, is second to the salvific mission of the Church). The more worthily we celebrate the liturgy, the more effective we can participate in the work of Christ. This seems evident in that parishes which emphasize social justice at the expense of orthodoxy are finding themselves in ruin, with loss of priests and loss of true and salvific faith, hope and charity. If they are concerned more about material aid for the corruptible things and not spiritual aid for the incorruptible soul, they may well be told of their work, “`Fool! This night your soul is required of you; and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’” (Luke 12:20).
This from Pope Benedict XVI in a homily given on Sunday June 22 at the closing Mass for the 49th International Eucharistic Congress, which summarises the points made earlier (emphasis my own):
He has said it – Save the Liturgy, Save the World!
Chris, I am surprised that you have imagined that I think that sacrifice for the sake of sacrifice is good. You have successfully knocked down the straw man of your own creating. Congratulations.
Christ is saving us by putting us into the love he has for the Father that that love that the Father has for us pervades all of our being and life. That is the reason for the incarnation and that is the work of the Sacrifice of the Cross. He brings true worship in spirit and in truth to us, because he puts us into his filial love of the Father, and we worship the Father through Him, with Him and in Him.
And that is the worship that the Father seeks.
Now, that restored love for the Father and reception of the Father’s love must overflow in us into fraternal love – and mercy for the poorest of the poor, and justice according to the wisdom of God for those who suffer injustice. And he calls us to be instruments in that. But that is an overflow. That is the second commandment which resembles the first – but it is not the first.
The first is that we love the Lord our God with whole heart, mind, strength, soul, etc.
The first is oriented to the true worship of God and the second flows out of it, to a love for all for whom Christ sacrificed Himself.
Now, rubrics are not more important than charity. Rubrics are ordered to protect the form that facilitates the divine communication of charity. That is why they are extremely important. Because without that divine communication of charity, which also depends on our disposition, our reception, which is partly divinely prepared without our will and partly engaged in with divine help with our wills, any attempts at social justice will be mere humanitarianism which will not go all the way in Christian love and justice.
They will be better than nothing, but they will be nothing in the order of grace and so eternally won’t amount to much.
I hope we can see an end to timewasting dichotomies. First in the order of perfection will always be God and the commandment to love Him will always be first. It must never be opposed to the commandment to love our neighbour, and indeed to make an opposition of them is to negate them both. But the source of strength by which to divinely love our neighbour, flowing out of the Sacrifice of Christ that saves us must NEVER be thought of as secondary to any human initiatives for social justice.
God will not be pleased with someone who worries all day about rubrics but who never acts in fraternal charity. Nor will he be happy with someone who harps on all day about social justice and then nonchalently degrades the liturgy with every innovation under the sun so that they feel they own it. And someone sticking up for the litugy over that sort of abuse must not be assumed to be a pharisee who must by that fact never care about the poor or the oppressed.
God wants conversion of heart, not just externals. That is what he is saying in those verses you originally quote. Following rubrics without the heart in worship is not what pleases Him. But the Sacrifice of Christ which is a full opening of his divine and pierced Heart is what pleases Him. And in honouring that, we do well to do as the Church asks us to – for the Church seeks to protect the mystery that it can be transmitted intact and that its fruits can be fully realised.
One could just as easily muck things up with social justice. To be concerned with the externals of actions without the real disposition of heart – for other reasons for example – to seem better than those pharisaical Catholics who concern themselves with rubrics for example. That would be hateful in God’s sight for the same reason – it would be a cutting off from the true Source of all social justice.
Good on those who genuinely try to protect the form of the mysteries that their content can be more readily transmitted. Good on those who genuinely seek to transform our world into a more just one.
That transformation will be more effective the more it leans on Christ’s sacrifice and the less it relies on our own strength alone. The more the second commandment is ordered properly to the first, the more it can be realised in truth.
Holy Father in his quest to ‘re-sacralize’ the liturgy seems to be looking to have the Gregorian Rite (seemingly this is the proper name for what has been called the Tridentine Mass) existing side by side with the New (current) Mass. I think this move is understandable seeing the solemn nature of this Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite, which seems to exude the sacred, which would hopefully overflow onto the New Mass as well.
For a brief intro’ on the Gregorian Rite, here’s a short video of a news coverage on it, with accompanying explanations on the differences, its character and how it’s being received.
Also of interest may be this commentary by George Wiegel on the Holy Father’s Motu Proprio, Summorum Pontificum, that is intended to make the Gregorian Rite more widely available (emphasis my own):
TTM,
You haven’t quoted anything from the scriptures about the importance of orthodox and beautiful liturgy.
What you have quoted is about the importance of the mass which remains even when done unorthodoxly and unbeautifully.
This seems evident in that parishes which emphasize social justice at the expense of orthodoxy are finding themselves in ruin, with loss of priests and loss of true and salvific faith, hope and charity.
Yeah, right. That would be why St Joan of Arc is flourishing while Churches in Cdl Pells diocese report steadily dropping mass attendences.
The Eucharist is not a meal among friends.
That’s just nonsense. The mass has always been a passover meal and the Holy Father intervened at length in the recent synod on the Eucharist to insist that the eucharist is BOTH meal and sacrifice.
The Jewish sacrifices themselves were both sacrifice and meal. That’s always been the traditional understanding.
Agree with you on 28.
God Bless
poorclear,
The first and second great commandments are inseperable. That’s why Christ stated both together and why St Paul stated that the WHOLE of the law is summed up in “love your neighbour as yourself”.
Now, rubrics are not more important than charity.
Exactly.
God Bless
Chris
Um…. no.
Here is the relevant paragraph from the Holy Father’s homily at the closing Mass of the 49th International Eucharistic Congress.
Link to entire homily : The Eucharist is not a meal among friends
Interesting. The homily has already been linked to by TTM. Obviously needs to be said again and again, though.
I’M SURPRISED THAT THE BIG BLACK THING AT ST JOAN OF ARC ISN’T GIVING ALL THE CHILDREN OF THAT PARISH NIGHTMARES. IT GIVES ME THE CREEPS.
ISN’T THE DEVIL HAVING A WONDERFUL TIME DESTROYING THE LITURGY OF THE MASS.
CHRIS
CAN YOU SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM THAT THE CHURCHES OF CARDINAL PELL’S DIOCESE ARE REPORTING DECREASING NUMBERS.
HOW DO YOU KNOW – WHERE CAN WE READ THAT?
SEEMS TO ME THERE IS A GREAT NEED FOR SOUND CATECHESIS ON WHAT THE MASS REALLY IS.
Chris,
“You haven’t quoted anything from the scriptures about the importance of orthodox and beautiful liturgy. What you have quoted is about the importance of the mass which remains even when done unorthodoxly and unbeautifully.”
Have a think about the implication of the glory Christ has in the Father’s presence, and that He is drawing us to be in the same glory where He is (which is what the Mass is, quite literally). If you’d lke a concrete example, observe the Old Testament prefigurement in the rites and observations with regards the holy of hollies and the meticulous and glorious construction of the Arc of the Covenant – and then try to out-do that, since we’re now speaking of their fulfilment.
As it has been made clear, it is the source and summmit of faith, hope and charity, and where Catholics “draw their strength” for any salvific work. Celebrate worthily, and it flows onto any ministry or apostolate. Therefore, it is first in the hierarchy of importance, because any works of faith, hope and charity (including authentic social justice) depend on it.
Lack of orthodoxy and respectful celebration due to the Divine Liturgy serve to the detriment of any authentic works of faith, hope and charity, and therefore to the salvation of souls. How can you hope to be a channel for supernatural faith when heterodoxy in the holy of hollies betrays the lack of it? How can you hope to carry out works of charity when charity is lacking toward God Himself? I think the fruit of dissent (which St. Paul tells us will lead to loss of souls [Gal 5:20]) and disobedience (which Jude says is comparable to Korah rebellion [Jude 1:8-13]) found in parishes which practice liturgical abuse shows us where they lead to.
“Yeah, right. That would be why St Joan of Arc is flourishing while Churches in Cdl Pells diocese report steadily dropping mass attendences.”
Two points.
That orthodoxy is condusive to increase in adherence and attendance is well-known, as also its opposite in heterodoxy.
Whether or not an increase in attendences is to be celebrated depends on how good the parish really is. For example, an increased number in a dissenting group adhering to Korah’s rebellion is not really something to celebrate. It may be that they are simply ignorant of the sacrilegious nature of their liturgy, which is certainly to be hoped for.
As for Cardinal Pell’s diocese, allow me to quote (at some length) from his own address:
So let’s see,
This from Goodbye! Good Catholics, by Fr. John Trigilio, president of the Confraternity of Catholic Clergy:
So Fr. Trigilio too agrees: Save the Liturgy, Save the World!
On the steadily declining mass attendence in the Sydney diocese of Cdl Pell and Bp Fisher :-
and
God Bless
Chris,
you do realise that Cardinal Pell has been in Sydney only since 2001? Prior to his tenure the bishop of Sydney was Archbishop Edward Bede Clancy whose only indication of orthodoxy in the article is a negative one:
So, frankly, this isn’t a particularly good example. In fact, this is what you would expect for a diocese in recovery from liberalism.
A better one would be Lincoln, Nebraska, where “long and capable episcopate of Bishop Glennon P. Flavin (1967-1992), who guided his diocese through the turbulent post- Vatican II decades with a sure hand until his recent retirement.”:
TTM,
It would be interesting to know how many of the Lincoln seminarians come from Lincoln and how many come from other states, attracted to what they see in Lincoln vs what they see in their home dioceses.
God Bless
Here’s an introduction the the article, Calling the Church to suicide: The liberal agenda:
I recommend reading the article in full.
“Yeah, right. That would be why St Joan of Arc is flourishing while Churches in Cdl Pells diocese report steadily dropping mass attendences.”
An interesting answer to:
“This seems evident in that parishes which emphasize social justice at the expense of orthodoxy are finding themselves in ruin, with loss of priests and loss of true and salvific faith, hope and charity.”
Chris, your statement didn’t refute TTM’s, and also if correct (I’d like to see you try and prove that statement) then it only shows the folly of playing a numbers game. If that’s all it is let’s just appeal to the masses (not Masses), get rid of the altar, replace it with a drum kit and start kicking out some rockin’ workship.
How many vocations are coming out of parishes like St Joan of Arc? Compare that to how many vocations are coming out of parishes under the guidance of bishops like Pell.
I think you’ll find the difference quite incredible.
And why such a difference? The Liturgy.
And it’s not just vocations to the priesthood. It’s religious life and that ever important vocation of marriage.
But even MORE importantly is what happens to personal holiness. Participation in sacred liturgy gets people to heaven. The bollocks that goes on in parishes like St Joan of Arc may still be a valid Mass, but it quickly becomes a mockery of the very thing it’s attempting to be. It doesn’t lead people to Christ, it leads them straight back into themselves, granted feeling a little more puffed up and important for “having done such a good job this year, and didn’t the children do well, and we all love the big puppet thing, and wasn’t it so powerful. Let give the music team a round of applause”
On the flip side a beautiful, faithful liturgy leads directly into the heart of Christ and converts us to him. This is what it’s all about. Poorclear says it better than me…
“God wants conversion of heart, not just externals. That is what he is saying in those verses you originally quote. Following rubrics without the heart in worship is not what pleases Him. But the Sacrifice of Christ which is a full opening of his divine and pierced Heart is what pleases Him. And in honouring that, we do well to do as the Church asks us to – for the Church seeks to protect the mystery that it can be transmitted intact and that its fruits can be fully realised.
So Chris, don’t defend parishes like St Joan of Arc just because they rabbit on about social justice all the time. Once again, Poorclear says it better…
Nor will he be happy with someone who harps on all day about social justice and then nonchalently degrades the liturgy with every innovation under the sun so that they feel they own it. And someone sticking up for the litugy over that sort of abuse must not be assumed to be a pharisee who must by that fact never care about the poor or the oppressed.
So we shouldn’t be multicultural, according to Klinghoffer ?
We have to give up Catholicity to do that !
God Bless
Chris,
The mass has always been a passover meal and the Holy Father intervened at length in the recent synod on the Eucharist to insist that the eucharist is BOTH meal and sacrifice.
I think the idea that the Holy Father is trying to communicate in saying “the Eucharist is not a meal among friends” is that it is not merely a meal and that it is not a casual fraternal banquet. The Church teaches that it is first and foremost a Sacrifice, and the meal aspect is secondary to that.
From The Eucharist: Source and Summit of the Life and Mission of the Church:
Chris,
“So we shouldn’t be multicultural, according to Klinghoffer? We have to give up Catholicity to do that!”
I think you’re playing word games now, and grasping at straw. If you read the word ‘multicultural’ in context, you’d know it’s refering to the wrong kinds involving compromise of orthodoxy for secondary and cultural reasons: “the more heterodox—multicultural, multi-doctrinal—the churches become, the more congregants they lose, and yet they keep at it”. The Catholicity of the Church demands that first of all we give what is due to God without compromise, for we can only maintain it through faithfulness to the Head of the Body of Christ.
Let’s look at a few issues in light of the article on ‘liberalism’ above:
Isn’t this common sense, really? Applied to a sample of the issues in discussion here, we see that:
• ‘Meals among friends’ can be had anywhere else (at home, in pubs, etc.), so why bother going to Church to do it? Sacrifice of the Mass, however, can be had only at the Divine Liturgy.
• ‘Social Justice’ in the sense promoted by the ‘liberals’ can be had anywhere else, so why bother doing it in the Church? Authentic and salvific social justice which leads to spiritual conversion flows from being united to Christ’s offering, and thus must be seen as the source of authentic mission to the spiritually and materially poor (and again, this is to be had nowhere else).
It’s no wonder that ‘liberalism’ and heterodoxy leads to decline while orthodoxy and religious conservatism “has a monopoly on growth, particularly among young people”.
Here’s some info’ on the Eucharist as sacrifice from the Early Church Fathers, as part of the “Eucharistic catechesis [for] a genuine Eucharistic awareness”. Isn’t this part of saving the Liturgy – to “not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind” (Romans 12:2)?
As mentioned by a few of the Fathers, The sacrificial nature of the Eucharistic offering is prophesied by prophet Malachi: “For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering” (Malachi 1:11).
I think many of their teachings are instructive for us today. Note the necessity of worthy preparation due to the ‘pure offering’ (Didache), the priest as acting in persona Christi (Cyprian of Carthage), Importance of Sacred Music and the congregation’s offering up of the Eucharist as prayer of intercession (Cyril of Jerusalem), Mass as heavenly liturgy, one and the same sacrifice, and necessity of proper reverence (John Chrysostom).
This is from the Catholic Answers library article, The Sacrifice of the Mass:
TTM,
I take your point about the sacrifice coming first. That’s also the Jewish tradition of temple sacrifice and the passover tradition. But, nonetheless, the mass is still a meal among friends. Not just a meal among friends. But still a meal among friends. A special meal among special friends.
I don’t know that one can really do social justice in its fullness outside the Church because nowhere outside the Church does any other have the fullness of social teaching than one requires as an essential guide. I say this as someone who has participated in a great many social justice activities, both within and outside the Church.
God Bless
Chris, are you disagreeing with our Holy Father? He says, “The Eucharist is not a meal among friends. It is a mystery of covenant.”
You say, “that God is much more interested in social justice than in liturgical orthodoxy and beauty” and I think you are right in some sense. Empty prayer is a whitened sepulchre, attractive only externally. Loving one’s neighbor is the fruit of the objective of liturgical orthodoxy though – the fruit of the Eucharist being our ability to abide in Christ and Him in us.
But social justice without a patient obedience to Jesus’ Body, the Church, is ALSO a whitened sepulchre in the sense of salvation. You have created a dichotomy, perhaps unintentionally, that does not actually exist. As Disciples of Christ, we are called to worship Him in an ecclesial context, we are called to be witnesses to hope through our intimacy and union with God. From this loving intimacy we can share our Divine bounty and thus social justice is birthed through our participation in the Sacraments.
What God is ultimately interested in is our salvation through us freely reciprocating the Love He holds for us. Social justice is a fruit of that union. Liturgical beauty and truth is a gift of God to _us_ through His mystical Body, the Church.
“A special meal among special friends.”
I think Benedict XVI, being a pre-eminent theologian as well as the chief shepherd occupying the Papal office, would not utter what he uttered without having an understanding surpassing both of ours.
Let’s see then what the Pope means when he says, “the Eucharist is not a meal among friends. It is a mystery of covenant.”
It is a meal, but first of all a passover meal, in which we seal the covenant by consuming the sacrifice. I think when we examine the “mystery of covenant”, it would be obvious that “a meal among friends” is not an apt description, even when qualified with a “special” added to it.
This mystery of the new covenant is prefigured by the original passover, when Moses led the people of Israel out of the Egyptian captivity. The institution of the passover can be seen in Exodus 12 (reading this chapter in full in view of the Eucharist may be of benefit for most of us).
At the passover, they were required to take a lamb: “[the] lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old; you shall take it from the sheep or from the goats”. Its blood would be used to cover the door posts and the lintel of the house (12:7), and the lamb would be roasted and eaten with unleavened bread:”They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it” (12:8).
This was part of sealing the covenant, through which the people of Israel would be saved from the coming smiting of the first-born: “For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the LORD. The blood shall be a sign for you, upon the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague shall fall upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.” (Exodus 12:12-13)
Significantly, the passover served also as a sign of communion of the circumcised, united and incorporated into the people of God: “And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the passover: no foreigner shall eat of it; but every slave that is bought for money may eat of it after you have circumcised him. No sojourner or hired servant may eat of it. In one house shall it be eaten; you shall not carry forth any of the flesh outside the house; and you shall not break a bone of it. All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.” (Exodus 12:43-49 RSV)
Through this, they were brought out of Egypt and sustained in a journey toward the promised land: “Thus did all the people of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so they did. And on that very day the LORD brought the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their hosts.” (Exodus 12:50-51)
“Mystery of the covenant” then is more apt a title, since the above drama foreshadowing the new covenant is fulfilled in Christ: The unblemished lamb and unleavened bread find their fulfilment in “the Lord immolated and lying upon the altar”, which we consume in the solemnity of one preparing for the Exodus (12:11). Its ‘meal’ aspect must be seen in this light, and in recognition of the fact that, though strangers we may be, we are brought into a holy communion within the Body of Christ. In this sense, we are more than friends; we are made, ontologically, a people of God closer to one another even than to our biological kin. Through this communion, we are hauled aboard the Ark of salvation.
Here then is the Bible’s own “Eucharistic Catechises”, showing also the manner in which we ought to respond: “And when your children say to you, `What do you mean by this service?’ you shall say, `It is the sacrifice of the LORD’s passover, for he passed over the houses of the people of Israel in Egypt, when he slew the Egyptians but spared our houses.’” And the people bowed their heads and worshiped. (Exodus 12:26-27)
This struck me as answering the debate, it is also from the Holy Father’s homily from the 49th Eucharistic Congress.
That social justice is a fruit of the Eucharist…
“Participation in the Eucharist, then, does not distance us from our contemporaries; on the contrary, because it is the expression par excellence of the love of God, it calls us to be involved with all our brothers to address the present challenges and to make the planet a place where it is good to live.”
The sacred nature of the liturgy…
“…as Vatican Council II reminds: “Every liturgical celebration, because it is an action of Christ the priest and of His Body which is the Church, is a sacred action surpassing all others; no other action of the Church can equal its efficacy by the same title and to the same degree ” (”Sacrosanctum Concilium,” No. 7).”
Chris,
“The mass has always been a passover meal”
It seems we do share this understanding. I think the point the Holy Father is making is that the passover meal, in the light of Exodus 12, is not “meal among friends”, but “a mystery of covenant” – the difference being the context in which the meal is found (fulfilment of the sacrificial lamb, salvation from the smiting of Egypt, Exodus, etc.).
muerk wrote: “social justice is a fruit of the Eucharist”
Yes, I think this is the key concept which determines the order of importance. A worthy celebration implies its fruits in spiritual and corporal works of mercy, being their source (and summit). Worthy celebration involves both the orthodox and the sacred, in both interior disposition and external manifestation (the external aspect being both the fruit and help toward the internal).
I think it is for this reason that the Holy Father makes an “appeal to all the faithful to make a similar commitment to a renewal of Eucharistic catechesis, so that they themselves will gain a genuine Eucharistic awareness and will in turn teach children and young people to recognize the central mystery of faith and build their lives around it.”
Chris,
It would seem the beloved St Joan of Arc parish is not the flavour of the month at Catholic HQ in Minnesota:
HAT TIP: Curt Jester — http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/archives/2008/06/a-reply.php
Scribe,
Hah – that’s nothing compared to Abp Burke’s imposing interdict (refusal of all the sacraments) on a nun just prior to his redeployment back to Rome.
http://web.zenit.org/article-23046?l=english
God Bless
Interesting link, Christopher.
It seems as though she has had plenty of opportunities to think through her opinions. This bit was interesting:
No equivocation. No ‘the Church might be given the power in the future’ rubbish. No pussyfooting around the issue.
It’s worth reading the link, for mine.
FXD,
JPII didn’t say “it is impossible for”. He said “the church does not have the power to”.
It very dangerous for little groups to go off and “ordain” their own priests. Not only do such illicit processes omit proper formation of the “priests” but they also exclude the proper process of discernment of vocation under due episcopal authority.
I think Abp Burke was wise to act but I think inderdict will probably cause more problems than it solves.
I’m never in favour of interdict or excommunication. It simply isn’t the way of Christ.
God Bless
Chris,
I think Archbishop Burke was spot on in his decision. As with the women who were “ordained” earlier in the year, and members of a parish council who had acted in defiance of canon law, they were well warned of what their actions would lead to yet they went ahead.
The good archbishop has been incredibly pastoral in his communication with these various people, urging them to not do what they did, so they’ve only got themselves to blame.
“JP II didn’t say “it is impossible for”. He said “the church does not have the power to”.
Chris,
You seem to have missed the actual point of the teaching statement that JP II made about the non-ordination of women.
When he said the “Church does not have the power to ordain women”, he was speaking in the same sense as someone who says:
“My father does not have the power to turn himself into a cabbage”
This statement does not mean that in future years this person’s father will have the power to become a leafy green vegetable, in the same way John Paul II’s statement does NOT mean that the Church will someday have the power to ordain women.
JP II’s statement is not actually directed at the nature of the Church, instead it is directed at the nature of Holy Orders.
In other words, JP II is not saying “the Church doesn’t have this power because it hasn’t been given to it yet”, instead he is saying “the Church doesn’t have this power because such a power does not actually exist in reality, as valid priestly ordinations can only involve human males and never human females”
A similar statement, which shows the true essence of how JP II was using these words would be this one:
“The Church does not have the power to permit her male laity and religious to be pregnant and give birth to babies”
“…they’ve only got themselves to blame”
I think this is the essence of excommunication. It is the way of Christ, precisely because it is ’severe mercy’. It would not be a merciful thing to let them take a step toward the road to perdition without a clear warning.
I think we’d see this more clearly if one realises that joining in Korah’s rebellion is an objectively evil act which would bring upon themselves the same fate that befell on Korah and his company.
I pray you, Chris, to desist in promoting the idea to any degree. I shall elaborate on the above point if that seems necessary.
TTM,
There are clear warnings and clear warnings.
If you cut someone off from all the sacraments when you know she is involved with a group of people who have “ordained” women “priests” then you take the risk that your actions will move her into schism via a closer “sacramental” relationship with the women “priests”.
I think this situation needs to be handled very carefully.
If we bungle it, we’ll wind up with a new schism.
There are more than just this one nun involved. Her parish council are right behind her and very critical of the way Burke has handled this.
http://www.stcronan.org/site/ParishCouncil27June.html
http://www.stcronan.org/site/louiselearsdecree.html
The polls show that most Catholics support ordaining women. And there is huge disgruntlement with the Church from women. Huge divisions in the US Church. All the preconditions for major problems.
Excommunication and interdict are not the way of Christ. They are the direct opposite of how Jesus loved Judas. Chrit invited Judas to the last supper (after Judas had already received the 30 pieces of silver in his agreement to betray Christ), gave Judas Holy Communion, greeted Judas as a friend when Judas came to arrest him at Gethsemane.
That’s the standard for treating those who betray us. The standard of love.
It’s the same approach Christ taught in the parable of the cockle (weeds) and the wheat. Leave the cockle, do not pull it out, for if you do so, you will inevitably pull out some of the good wheat too. Leave the judging to God. “Do not judge, least ye be judged”.
Burke is a canon lawyer and he’s rather wont to use the force of cannon law when he’d do better to try to reconcile and heal. This is just the latest of a whole string of actions Burke has taken which have aggravated the good Catholics of St Louis. That’s probably why the Holy Father moved Burke back to Rome.
God Bless