All by myself

So, it seems I am now the lone regular poster for Being Frank.

One by one our posters have dropped by the wayside and left me, all alone, on a Wednesday, blogging along about random things that come to mind.

So I guess it's time to ask the question: Is Being Frank a worthwhile blog? Is it making a difference to people living out their faith? Is it worth fighting for or is it time to call it quits?

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    Comments: 70

    1. Rubyshine July 9, 2014 at 9:43 pm

      I really enjoy what be in Frank has to offer. It has given me a lot to consider and reflect on. I have learnt an awful lot from many people here even when I have wildly disagreed. 

      I would be sad to see it end. With good guys, bad guys, local politics and satire there is seldom a dull moment, and then there are times when people express an aspect of faith with such eloquence or simple clarity that I feel complete gratitude to have crossed paths with them.

      Having said that if it has become a burden to the posters then perhaps it has run its course. I was just thinking the other day what a challenge it must be to be a priest, and to have to think of something wise and inspiring to say most days of the week. Or perhaps there are others who would be willing to post?

      I had noticed that a few of the regular commentators have also gone quiet.

      If things do get wound up, I would appreciate it if there was a final post, perhaps an opportunity to thank posters who helped my faith and the posters who have stirred some fine debate.

      Whatever gets decided, thank you m&m and the other posters, your efforts are appreciated.

    2. MarkO July 9, 2014 at 10:24 pm

      I have been priviledged to have known three Spitfire pilots who flew to preserve freedom during WWII.

      One of them flew circa 1943-1945 in the European Theatre. He went aloft in his aircraft up to four times a day, week after week, to fight the enemy. Well knowing that he might not come down again alive. He was scared witless during the whole time and his efforts drained him of almost everything he had. He personally witnessed two of his fellow pilots burn alive after being hit by enemy cannon.

      But he never gave up nor disobeyed orders.

      God preserved him and blessed his efforts. He shot down a Ju88 bomber over the Omaha Beachhead during the afternoon of D-Day – and before that had flown numerous gound attack missions which helped pave the way.

      He was a fighter and never gave up – and he wasn't even a Christian at the time…..

      Lesson I learnt from him – you never give up – and God certainly doesn't, not ever.

      His name: Squadron Leader Keith J. MacDonald, RAF (NZ) No. 485 Squadron.

      God Bless, Mark.

       

       

       

    3. Werahiko July 9, 2014 at 10:30 pm

      What? To whom shall we go?

    4. Lucia Maria July 10, 2014 at 8:38 am

      MaryandMartha,

      Only blog if you want to.  It doesn't really work any other way.

      I'm one of those who used to be very prolific and now only blog rarely.  I've just lost the heart for it.

      Ultimately, blogging is one of those things that can only be maintained with a lot of energy and desire for it – it you've lost both of those, you can limp along for a while before fizzing out.

      It would be sad for Being Frank to shut down, but then it's not your responsibility to keep it alive.

    5. Teresina July 10, 2014 at 12:32 pm

      I certainly don't think that Being Frank has run its distance.  I see BF posts actually being published and referred to on other Catholic websites.  To me Being Frank is important to maintain a New Zealand Catholic voice, to be able to air issues that are affecting the Church in this country.  I imagine it is difficult to keep a blog running with new posts every week as people have work and families and other commitments, so I think the idea of the Sunday Scrum is a good one and covers for where there is a lack of posts.

    6. beyblade July 10, 2014 at 6:02 pm

      Teresina and Benedicta – why don't you two posters?

    7. MarkO July 10, 2014 at 6:25 pm

      Beyblade. I second your motion! God Bless! Mark

    8. Teresina July 10, 2014 at 11:51 pm

      Thanks for nominating me, guys, but I rather enjoy being "on the other side" and responding to posts.

      But what about you MarkO and Beyblade – I am sure the two of you could put up some excellent challenging posts.  How about it Admin – MarkO and Beyblade as two new posters??

    9. bamac July 11, 2014 at 10:08 am

      And what about Vat 2 Survivor?

    10. Teresina July 11, 2014 at 11:51 am

      Yes, Mrs Mac, Vatican2Sutvivor would put up good posts I'm sure.

      Also, if you could paste up any links to Michael Voris that you get as I can only seem to get on to him through your links for some reason.  To me he is a very important voice in the struggle against modernism!

    11. MarkO July 11, 2014 at 10:03 pm

      Teresina.  I hadn't thought about that, but I might be open to the idea if the moderators of this site might like my website; http://www.thewayexplained.com/  I'm very passionate about the rights to life of the unborn child – and about the Mission of our Lord Jesus Christ and the role of His Mother Mary. Too conservative many might say. Or too radical as others might say. But I've been through the mill – and witnessed the power which has been invested in Mary – she has saved me more than once…  You be the judge (I trust your insight based on everything you've said to date – you're my kind of Catholic Christian!)  God Bless, Mark

    12. MarkO July 11, 2014 at 10:09 pm

      Teresina.  P.S. Not sure what happened to that link.  But copy and paste thewayexplained.com  That will take you to the home page.  Catch up soon!

      Mark

       

       

       

    13. Teresina July 11, 2014 at 10:56 pm

      Mark, I have looked at your website and I think it is excellent – exactly what Catholics – especially young people need these days – things that they are not being taught.  I feel that you would be excellent to post on this site, especially to raise issues about the unborn and about Our Lady.  I suggest that you click on the "contact the team" at the top of the page and fill in the form offering to post.  It would be a help to M&M and Marty Ruthel to have someone like yourself to keep this site topical. 

    14. MarkO July 12, 2014 at 1:26 pm

      Thanks Teresina.  I'll certainly give your suggestion some serious thought – God Bless!

      Mark

    15. Teresina July 13, 2014 at 1:19 pm

      Marko, I hope that you do go on to awaken this blog.  I think many people posting on here have been from the Hamilton Diocese, which is about to undergo a re-organisation.  I imagine many of them are feeling unsettled by the coming changes and blogging is probably the last thing they feel like doing.  However, we are on the cusp of getting a new bishop and things we hope can only get better, I believe.  For now Bishop Browne has been knocked back in his bid to knock down Euphrasie House – as someone said to me today – the Bishop's decision to knock down Euphrasie House is akin to the bulldozers that he is sending in to knock down the diocese.

      We don't know what will happen so it seems to me a pity if Being Frank is closed down because there will be nowhere to express dissatisfaction of what is going on or indeed express and encourage good things that are going on.  Being Frank has been going for many years now and I used to read it for many years without commenting as I am sure that many do now.

      I am sure that Being Frank has earned bricbats from some because there are those who say to remain silent and be tolerant even when things are wrong.  I mentioned that to a friend.  She put answered: short and sharp: So if they knew a father was abusing their child would they tolerate that?  So it is with the Church – silence means assent.  To all those who have niggled against Being Frank and quite possibly have got their way to have it closed down they are guilty of the abuses that go on in the Church when they continue to say nothing and tolerate and persuade others to tolerate and I can tell you categorically that is not the Catholic Church's teaching.  We were brought up to fight for the Faith in all its purity and truth and to do anything else is to sell out and to fiddle while Rome burns.

    16. MarkO July 13, 2014 at 3:14 pm

      Hi Teresina

      I'm very new here, but I have really enjoyed reading the comments on Being Frank.  It is a unique platform whereby Catholics can not only express their thoughts and concerns, but where they can also express their joys and their hopes offering insight and advice which at times I've found very helpful. It would be sad to loose it….

      I believe that the Church, though she be mauled by the forces of evil and misdeed, will one day (and I believe that day is not too far away) emerge holy and triumphant through the power of Mary and her Spouse, the Holy Spirit.  If Mary can calm a raging sea and make it calm (as I have personally witnessed), then I have no doubt she and her Spouse can do the same to the raging waters which are rocking the Church.

      I'd be glad to post – if the Team will have me of course  I'll contact the Team later today. God bless! Mark

       

       

    17. Teresina July 13, 2014 at 5:40 pm

      Mark, yes, you are absolutely right the Church will never go under and Our Lady is the key to it as you say.  Also, I think you're right about Being Frank being a unique platform and I am sure that it has helped many people through the years.  There are a lot of different views expressed from the very liberal to the ultra-traditional, which is representative of what makes up the Church and of course people come and go, change in circumstances, marriage and a family mean lack of time and family must come first.  I have come across quite a few different priest blogs too, which at one time you wouldn't have got, whereas Being Frank is lay people giving voice to their concerns, hopes and experiences (good and bad) and I am sure it has been of influence in some areas for the good.  Good luck with the Team – if they agree to it I am sure you will put up some very challenging thought provoking posts.  God bless, you too, Mark and keep up with your own blog because I think in this day and age when we are hit with so much liberal stuff it is important to have a voice in opposition and the more the better.  You may find this Facebook site of interest, although it does tend more to the promotion of the Traditional Mass:  https://www.facebook.com/TheFaithInNewZealand?ref=hl 

    18. Vatican2Survivor July 14, 2014 at 5:15 pm

      MarkO

      Please consider as well, writing a book on you experience of the miraculous calming of the sea. Popular books about near death experiences exist already,but, in my  opinion, you go a step further beyond these, to fill quite a big a gap existing in their narrative themes,(or simply naremes.  You say how and why and what can be said to explain how death was prevented, as You connect us to Christ's miracle of calming the seas for the Apostles, and in so doing, revealing yet another insight, that the key decisve duelist in  death's duel for you now, out on the harbour recently, was  Christ's Mother

      .Perhaps it open to being looked at as a prophetic miracle too  for our time do you think?.As she said at Fatima re our times, that 'she alone can help us now', and Saint Pope John Paul who did not lose the connection of Mary's recent interventions as being the Lady clothed in the Sun as contained in the Book of Revelations,said words, to the effect, her 1917 Fatima messages are now more important than ever.

      Thank you for sharing this beautiful miracle from God with us.

       

    19. MarkO July 14, 2014 at 7:33 pm

      Hi Teresina and Vatican2Survivor

      You're right Teresina, the Church will never go under. I firmly believe that Mary is the key and that a personal consecration to her Immaculate Heart is absolutely central to the way forward at this time. The Church is likely to go through a hard phase and be pruned, but put it this way, a rose bush heavily pruned bursts into life soon afterwards when the time is right!

      Vatican2Survivor

      I had never thought about writing an account other than the brief one I wrote here on Being Frank. There is of course a lot more detail which I should write down and I'd like to thank you for your kind suggestion – it certainly was a miracle and one that has shaped my life and every decision I've made since then. You are so right about the message Our Mother Mary gave to the world at Fatima – I believe this message is now critically important.

      Contact me via e-mail at mark.os@xtra.co.nz if you'd like to catch up with a personal chat. God Bless! Mark

       

       

       

    20. Teresina July 14, 2014 at 11:32 pm

      Thanks, for that, Mark.  Speaking of miracles I was told recently that a church in Nelson was having problems with water getting into the crypt and so they had to exhume the body of a priest who had been buried there and his body had not corrupted.  I understand he was considered a holy priest but they are saying that the water has preserved his body – which I thought would have the reverse effect.  I don't know who the priest was but I am wondering if it is Father Antoine Marie Garin – have you or anyone else heard of this?  I believe in miracles and I don't see why it couldn't happen here to someone in New Zealand.

    21. Teresina July 14, 2014 at 11:46 pm

      Actualy, Mark, I have answered my own question as I found this:

      "On October 19, 1884, Father Garin celebrated his golden Jubilee. He had been in poor health for many years, but refused to give up his work and return to France. He died in Nelson on April 14, 1889. Father Garin was laid to rest in the cemetery at Wakapuaka and, following his wishes, a chapel was built at Wakapuaka in his name and his remains. Eighteen months after he was buried, his remains were exhumed and placed in a crypt underneath the chapel. Despite the coffin being waterlogged, there was neither sign nor smell of corruption from the body, according to those present. The document stating this was secretly signed by all the people present – Archbishop Redwood  wanted it to remain secret to prevent a cult developing around Father Garin."

      I'm not sure why it is being discussed now but perhaps there are moves afoot to take it further.

      If Being Frank does close down, Mark, I will contact you and maybe we can consider setting up a blog site to fill the gap that will be left?

    22. Vatican2Survivor July 15, 2014 at 7:16 am

      Teresina

      My  questionis short one but with a long preamble:

      Inspite of historical changes in the West for the last two millenia, there seems to be a certain demonstratable consistency in the wish to sustain the memory of the ideal saintly person manifesting Catholic idea traits in the way the ideal is imagined in public discourse, especially memorial feasts ,funeral orations, elegies, obituaries, obituary notices, as well as non verbal kinds of memorialisationin FChurch architecture and paintings, in the metaphorical language of Holy statues, iconic language of images and forms of musicand other rituals that shape space using human movementas part of the cultus of the ideal as well as written and oral sources. Why then the fear that this incorruptible priest would also be venerated as an ideal character for our veneration and imitation? I dont get it.

    23. Teresina July 15, 2014 at 10:27 am

      Vatican2Survivor, it does seem odd that Archbishop Redwood would make that decision.  I don't know much about Archbishop Redwood but perhaps the fact that we are in New Zealand which was a long way from Rome at that time is the reason he failed to do what he should have done if the above report is correct.  There are many bodies of saints that are incorrupt which of course is a sign to the non-believer of the power of God and that He does exist.  Many bishops perhaps out of an abundance of caution often seem reluctant to recognise miracles.  They are often the biggest obstacle to overcome.

      I found this short quite lovely video of some of the saints whose bodies are incorrupt – Padre Pio of course is amongst them, St John Bosco and St Vincent de Paul.  The video mentions that the bodies of these saints appear to be incorrupt to point to some truth in their lives, for example, the body of Jacinta Marto, one of the young seers of Fatima, is incorrupt which points to the truth of the apparitions at Fatima and also the body of St Bernadette points to the truth of the visions of Lourdes.  It is quite a lovely video if anyone cares to look at it and it is only 3 minutes long.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgW_JjCxuWA

    24. Teresina July 15, 2014 at 10:03 pm

      Perhaps this blogger sums up the general feeling among Catholics at the moment:

      "The latest papal interview with Scalfari is, as far as Catholic clergy and others will be concerned, a total and unmitigated disaster. At the unemployed centre, this headline faced me in the dining room. I turned to a friend and said, 'How does he know that?'

      Within the world at large, there is a common perception that while not all Catholic clergy are child abusers and that the number who have consist of a very small minority, the headline '1 in 50' does have something of a 'an abusive priest could live down the road from you' feel about it and straight from the mouth of the Pope. Of course, we cannot verify directly that His Holiness said it because His Holiness chose to speak again to someone who misrepresents his every utterance, but His Holiness himself has never corrected any such misrepresentations, instead permitting Catholic Church-hating atheists to print whatever they think he has said without rebuke.  …

      Losing the heart to blog

      It is true I don't have so much time to blog as I once did but I am very depressed. Why pretend otherwise? I'll never back assisted suicide but I do sometimes think that papal pronouncements and the dreaded interviews in particular are designed to kick faithful Catholics where it hurts so often and so hard that we end up backing assisted suicide because we cannot take much more of this because it is all coming from the Pope himself.

      It's all very sad that loyal supporters of his predecessor have to grope at a World Cup result as evidence of divine favour resting on the former Pope, its all a bit pathetic really, but I guess that what is beginning to feel like psychological warfare being employed by Pope Francis on the Faithful, we have to clutch at something – anything - a sporting sign that Our Lord Jesus Christ has not abandoned us. It seems like such a small thing but there we go, and all under the eyes of the Divine Redeemer Statue in Rio as well. I wonder if fragments of the Lord are still resting on the Copacabana beach?"

      http://thatthebonesyouhavecrushedmaythrill.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/watching-as-christian-civilisation.html

    25. MarkO July 15, 2014 at 11:22 pm

      Hi Teresina

      The blog site is already there in essence. Grab a YouTube account for free and then you can comment on the imbedded videos on my website as much as you like.  And going by what you've said here in the past, you'd be very much welcome at my place.  If you need help in figuring it out, contact me and I'll be happy to assist. God Bless! Mark

       

       

       

    26. Teresina July 16, 2014 at 10:03 am

      Thanks, Mark, I will do that and thanks for your vote of support – it hasn't always been that way on BF as there is a wide divergence of opinion.  Marty Ruthel is a good example of being a Catholic without compromise.  Something that all Catholics were brought up to be at one time.  Sadly lacking these days.  He has come in for a lot of flack because of it.  There is this PC idea afflicting some areas of the Church, which Michael Voris has summed up as "the Church of Nice".  It's not nice to criticise in other words.  But no Catholic should stay silent in the face of error, and in many cases there is serious error, as I'm sure you are well awre of.  The problem seems to be that a lot of Catholics are converts who have never been taught the Faith properly.  The bottom line is that to be a Catholic you have to accept the dogmas of the Church.  The Church has always taught that.  And the idea of joy has been turned on its head.  A false sense of  joy pervades – it is not joyful to criticise.  Well, while Our Lady, St John and the Apostles had joy in their hearts I am sure they did not exhibit joy when Our Lord was hung from the cross; when His side was speared with a lance, when other wounds were inflicted on His body.  And the same with us – should we exhibit joy when the Church the body of Christ is being inflicted with wounds?

      Here some have not liked criticism of Pope Francis.  But there have been a number of popes who were in error and we cannot turn a blind eye if even the pope crosses the line.  The pope is capable of error and is only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.  His personal opinions do not bind the Church in any way.  We know that one pope was so much in error that when he died it was difficult to find a priest who would bury him.  What we have at the moment is either the pope is being run by liberals or he knows what he is doing.  There have been attempts by the Vatican to say that comments he made in the recent interview to Scalfari were incorrect or exaggerated where he is reported as saying 2% of clergyy are pedophiles and that celibacy is a problem.  But the pope is not silly and neither are we.  This is the second interview the pope has given to Scalfari and the first interview caused equal consternation amongst the faithful. So either the pope is being pressured by liberals who are trying to change Church teaching through media pressure or unfortunately the pope in fact is a liberal and if so then it could well be that it is a fulfilment of St Francis' prophecy of a non-canonically elected pope who would cause serious problems for the Church.

      Whatever, as you say, Marko, the Church will never be overcome because we have that promise from Our Lord.  At the same time no Catholic worth their salt can afford to stay silent or tolerate wrong or evil.

      You may be interested in this explanation of the prophecy of St Francis of Assisi:

      "THE PROPHECY OF ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISSI

      In Works of the Seraphic Father by R. Washbourne (1882) that bears the mark of an imprimatur, a prophecy by St. Francis is imparted to his spiritual children on his deathbed. I quote the relevant parts here:

      Act bravely, my Brethren; take courage, and trust in the Lord. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials an afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase. The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Catholic Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death.

      Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God… Those who preserve their fervour and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a real service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth… Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor, but a destroyer.—Ibid. p.250 (emphasis mine)

      While some already felt this prophecy was fulfilled in the great schism, which desolated the Church after the election of Urban VI,3 it is understandably tempting not to apply it in some way to our times. In just the relatively brief period of the past 40-50 years, scandals have multiplied, religious orders have been obliterated, and there is such a diversity of opinion on basic moral law, Blessed John Paul II rightly lamented that “Vast sectors of society are
      confused about what is right and what is wrong."

      http://www.markmallett.com/blog/the-prophecy-of-st-francis/

    27. Teresina July 17, 2014 at 10:12 am

      M&M, I hope that you are joined soon by some extra posters – maybe in the form of Mark0 and good to see that Boerneges isn't entirely pulling out.

    28. Abenader July 17, 2014 at 6:00 pm

      Strabge times indeed in which we live. Just dont mention the confusion coming from the top. Oh, and of course the persection as well. Try and "Protect the Pope"  and yes, you will get unceremoniously shut down. In catholic speak it has the cute-sounding 'prayer and reflection'. http://protectthepope.com/

      To blog or not To blog is the question. Fr Ray Blake asks exactly this question "Where have all the bloggers gone?". http://marymagdalen.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/where-have-all-bloggers-gone.html and what might be stimulating (not ) this blogging (not) bonanza.

       

      The reign of Benedict produced a real flourish of 'citizen journalists', the net was alive with discussion on what the Pope was saying or doing and how it affected the life of our own local Church. Looking at some of my old posts they invariably began with quote or picture followed by a comment, Benedict stimulated thought, reflection and dialogue, an open and free intellectual environment. There was a solidity and certainty in Benedict's teaching which made discussion possible and stimulated intellectual honesty, one knew where the Church and the Pope stood. Today we are in less certain times, the intellectual life of the Church is thwart with uncertainty.

      William Oddie (Catholic Herald) responds to a particular aspect of Fr. Blake's question and agrees that loyalty for the sake of unity is perhaps bets expressed by silence. This includes a blogging-silence.  http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/07/11/fr-blake-says-that-in-order-to-maintain-the-unity-of-the-church-loyalty-to-the-pope-is-now-best-expressed-through-silence-i-fear-he-may-be-right/

       

      An Aussie blog which I enjoyed reading, Australia Incognita" (Kate Edwards) went into this blogging-silence some months ago and I wondered whether it had anything to do with the goings-on in Mother Church and the fatigue it might have induced in trying to decipher this haze. 

      However Mundabor says Blog On, "Now more than ever". http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/now-more-than-ever/

      (Warning : Messr. Mundabor does not have an Anglo background, so some of the words within his blog is, uhm pretty harsh aka Not Nice).

    29. Teresina July 18, 2014 at 6:00 pm

      Abenader, I saw that and what is interesting to note is all the bad mouthing that went on about St John Paul The Great and Benedict XVI and nothing said against it but now people are getting shut down, left, right and centre – the liberals are not liberal in that sense.  As mentioned in your link priests are being censured for speaking out about Catholic doctrine on morals, etc, and even Rome is intervening in this.  Bishop Schneider says that we are heading for schism and I believe he is right because, when push comes to shove, the likes of Cardinal Burke, Bishop Schneider and others are not going to tolerate the watering down of Catholic teaching, which as Cardinal Burke said on divorce comes not from the Church but from Our Lord Himself. 

      I agree with Mundabor – now is not the time to go silent because if we do the liberals will completely take over.  Now is the time to stand up: following the example of Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider and the Cardinal in Calgary who has also said Church teaching on divorce cannot be changed.  What they are saying is not said in a rude or objectionable manner but just that they reiterate Church teaching which is what we must do too.

    30. Teresina July 19, 2014 at 1:32 pm

      Some cardinals who are speaking out in defence of the Church's traditional teaching on marriage:

      "Toronto, Canada, Jul 2, 2014 / 12:05 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Catholic teaching on divorce and remarriage is “not open to change” as it is faithful to Jesus but the Church can do better in helping those suffering in this area, says Cardinal Thomas Collins of Toronto.

      “Although it would not be right for them to receive the sacraments, we need to find better ways to reach out to people in this situation, to offer them loving assistance,” the cardinal said in an interview published on the Word on Fire blog June 25.

      He said one form of help would be a wider realization that receiving communion is not obligatory at Mass." http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/toronto-cardinal-catholic-teaching-on-divorce-not-changing-54781/

      VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Just because many Catholics do not understand the church's teaching about the indissolubility of marriage, that does not mean the church can change that teaching, said Cardinal Gerhard Muller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith."

      http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1400809.htm?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=cardinal-mueller-ignorance-about-marriage-is-no-reason-to-change-doctrine

      Vatican City (kath.net / KNA) The emeritus Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re (80) does not believe that Pope Francis will remove the exclusion of remarried divorcees from the ecclesiastical sacraments. He does not consider it possible to revise this canonical rule, Re on Tuesday said to the Internet site Vatican Insider. "An objective situation can not be changed," said the former prefect of the Congregation for Bishops, who served as the highest-ranking cardinal the conclave for the election of Francis.

      http://eponymousflower.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/cardinal-re-no-sacraments-for-remarried.html

      Cardinal Raymond Burke has voiced a clear disagreement with Cardinal Walter Kasper’s proposal for a new approach to allow Communion for Catholics who are divorced and remarried.

      Appearing on the EWTN TV broadcast of “The World Over,” Cardinal Burke told host Raymond Arroyo that Cardinal Kasper’s proposal, introduced at a February consistory of the world’s cardinals, would seem to conflict with established Catholic doctrine and canon law.

      “In my estimation as a canonist I do not think it is possible,” said Cardinal Burke, who is the prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, the Church’s top canonical tribunal. He added: “I trust in coming days… the error of his approach will become ever clearer."

      http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=20865

      "LONDON – The Catholic Church is living through a “great crisis” of belief and practice, facing a “new paganism” comparable to the first centuries of the Church, and in which many priests and bishops are actively collaborating, Bishop Athanasius Schneider, auxiliary bishop of Astana in Kazakhstan, said in an interview during a trip to the UK.

      The bishop said the crisis has particularly manifested itself in the erosion of belief in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, which he says has a “causal connection” to the denial of the Church’s teachings on sex and marriage. 

      http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bishop-schneider-church-faces-great-crisis-as-shes-tempted-to-conform-to-th

      As Catholics worthy of our salt, we must speak out too in support of marriage and against divorce, so that these bishops and Cardinals are not seen to be all by themselves …

      “This is the deepest evil,” says Schneider, "man, or the clergy, putting themselves in the centre when they are celebrating liturgy and when they change the revealed truth of God, for instance, concerning the Sixth Commandment and human sexuality.”

       

       

    31. bamac July 20, 2014 at 3:39 pm

      Teresina,

       This link provides a button for getting a free Vortex account … if I have the lin correctly coppied….

      http://www.churchmilitant.tv/index.php

      Mrs Mac

    32. Teresina July 20, 2014 at 8:42 pm

      Thanks you, Mrs Mac, I have now signed up for a free account.  I think it is very important to hear what Michael Voris has got to say in these times. 

      Also, another voice speaking out clearly is Bishop Schneider and he is not mincing words:

      "LONDON – The Catholic Church is living through a “great crisis” of belief and practice, facing a “new paganism” comparable to the first centuries of the Church, and in which many priests and bishops are actively collaborating, Bishop Athanasius Schneider, auxiliary bishop of Astana in Kazakhstan, said in an interview during a trip to the UK.

      The bishop said the crisis has particularly manifested itself in the erosion of belief in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, which he says has a “causal connection” to the denial of the Church’s teachings on sex and marriage. 

      “This is the deepest evil,” says Schneider, "man, or the clergy, putting themselves in the centre when they are celebrating liturgy and when they change the revealed truth of God, for instance, concerning the Sixth Commandment and human sexuality.”

      “We are living in an un-Christian society, in a new paganism,” Schneider told Atkinson. “The temptation today for the clergy is to adapt to the new world to the new paganism, to be collaborationists. We are in a similar situation to the first centuries, when the majority of the society was pagan, and Christianity was discriminated against.”

      He warned that Christians will likely be faced again with the choice of apostasy, offered to those in the early Church, to pinch “one grain of incense into a fire in front of the statue of the emperor.” This ultimatum may even be supported from within the Church.

      It seems possible that Catholics who remain faithful “may, for a time, be persecuted or discriminated even on behalf of those who [have] power in the exterior structures of the Church,” he said.

      “Unfortunately there were in the first century members of the clergy and even bishops who put grains of incense in front of the statue of the Emperor or of a pagan idol or who delivered the books of the Holy Scripture to be burned.”

      In our times, he said, clergy and bishops are not being asked to pinch incense to the emperor, but “to collaborate with the pagan world today in this dissolution of the Sixth Commandment and in the revision of the way God created man and woman.” These clergy, he said, would be “traitors of the Faith; they are participating ultimately in pagan sacrifice.”

      Asked whether he foresaw “a split coming in the Church,” he responded, “Unfortunately, for some decades some clergy have accepted these ideas of the world. Now however they are following them publicly.”

      “When these things continue, I think, there will be an interior split in the Church of those who are faithful to the faith of their baptism and of the integrity of the Catholic faith.” This split, he said, will be between those who remain faithful “to the unchangeable Catholic truth” and those “who are assuming the spirit of this world and there will be a clear split, I think.”"

      http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bishop-schneider-church-faces-great-crisis-as-shes-tempted-to-conform-to-th

      When a good bishop speaks out like this then it is obvious the Church is in a perilous position and each of us will have to decide which side we're on …

    33. Abenader July 20, 2014 at 10:04 pm

      Prof de Mattei says that we are not heading for a possible schism; we are in fact in one. Not only consistong of 2 sides but a plurality of positions:

      "From a Latent Schism to an Open Schism

      Let us answer the question with which we began: are we on the brink of a schism in the Church?

      My answer is: we are not on the brink of a schism: we are in the schism; we are plunged in schism, because the Church is torn, broken not into two sides, but into a plurality of different and divergent currents. It is enough to think of this Church within the Church, the “neocatechumenals”, with a liturgy that is technically schismatic, because it is separate from the ordinary and extraordinary rite of the Catholic Church.

      Within the one Church, different and opposing ideas and praxes are now living together. The schism has not yet become formal, but schisms and heresies, even when they are not notified and not even official, are nonetheless real. This latent, rampant, but real schism is bound to explode sooner or later in all its violence. The idea of avoiding it by placing opposing currents, from We are the Church to the Society of St. Pius X, in one “box” is an illusion, for two religions cannot live together in one ecclesial body. (…)

      But we know that, precisely because the Church is a visible institution, we must always make the distinction between the Church and the men of the Church: the Church is always visible, infallible and indefectible, immaculate in faith and in morals; the men of the Church are not all and are not always impeccable or infallible. Even the pope can be respectfully criticized. The pope is not Christ, nor His successor: he is His Vicar, but it is Jesus Christ who holds and governs the Church. (…)"

      http://www.dici.org/en/documents/is-the-catholic-church-on-the-brink-of-a-schism/

      Locally, at least some of our bishops would agree with Cdl Kasper's position. As far as I understand, this blog was of  a former journalist at NZ Catholic.

      In the Synod of Bishops on the Eucharist in 2005 or 2006, two of New Zealand’s bishops — Archbishop John Dew of Wellington and Bishop Denis Browne of Wellington — made the case for changes to two long-held Catholic teachings: The distribution of Communion to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics and the Church’s view on a celibate clergy, with recommendation that older married men who have been heavily involved with the Church for years being allowed to be ordained priests. Both arose out of an admirable concern that Catholics have access to the sacraments, but both raised some eyebrows because of the recommendations to change teachings.

      http://catholicsoapbox.com/dunedin-bishop-makes-some-sort-of-stand/

      So our future, like many parts of the world, lopks shaky indeed. But the great consoler is that it is Christ's church.

    34. bamac July 20, 2014 at 10:38 pm

      Teresina, Bishop Schneider is indeed a strong and good bishop … the link is to an interview of him by Michael voris  … you have to scroll down to where it says " the whole interview"

      http://philotheaonphire.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/the-vortex-with-bishop-athanasius.html

      God Bless,

      Mrs Mac

    35. bamac July 20, 2014 at 10:43 pm

      OOPS!  That should read "complete interview"   sorry

    36. Teresina July 20, 2014 at 11:40 pm

      Thank you, Mrs Mac, I will have a look at that interview.  I listened to Bishop Schneider on EWTN where he was talking about communion should be received on the tongue and I have heard it argued for before but he comes across as such a holy man who is so shocked by people taking it in the hand and he sees that as the root problem to the Church's ills which he feels has led to a lack of belief in the Real Presence.

      Another one speaking out now is Fr Ray Blake – see what he says:

      "Francis against 'orthodoxy'?

      For those who have a little theological insight or understanding of the history of theology in the last 150 years it is pretty obvious that what is commonly described as orthodoxy has been struggling for existence against a pragmatic approach to belief. Really, the big difficulty many of us have with Pope Francis' theology is that he seems to be an advocate of pragmatism and disfavours orthodoxy. In the previous papacy orthodoxy seemed to be triumphing over the theological approach Congar, Rhanner and the greatest of all proponent of this new approach to Catholic theology Hans Kung. Now, under Francis, orthodoxy is becoming a dirty word. the 'formlessness' of Kung seems to be on the rise.

      My Italian is pretty poor, with 'google translate' I can with a bit of difficulty begin to make sense of something. Have a look at this article, which tries to understand Francis' theology The significant paragraph is this – my translation.

      ….the formulas and dogmas cannot be understood in terms of historical evolution, but every problem must be placed in its historical and socio-political context. The concept of orthodoxy must be overcome, or at least reduced, because it is used as a "reference point to stifle freedom of thought and as a weapon to police and punish" … They define orthodoxy as "a metaphysical violence."The primacy of doctrine should be replaced by that of pastoral practice … " (Concilium, 2/2014, p. 11).

      Is this why the Franciscan Friars are being dealt with apparent harshness – because they were seen as the thriving proponents of 'orthodoxy'? Is this the reason why we seem to be into a 'hermeneutic of incoherence' – because those who equate being Catholic with being 'orthodox' suddenly find themselves in a Church where they are no longer at home or even belong?

      Posted by Fr Ray Blake

      Then we have our Christian brothers and sisters being torn from their home in Mosel.  The Faith is under threat both from within and from without.  So now is the hour for us to stand firm.  Although we will indeed become a small remnant (as Pope Benedict predicted) we will still belong to that unbroken line of tradition that the Holy Ghost will keep alive to the end of the world and we will help pass it down to future generations.  That certainty we can cling to.  While everything around us may seem uncertain, the way for us is clear and the Faith can never be taken from us and prayer helps to shore that up.

      And, Abernader, I am not surprised to hear that about Bishops Dew and Browne.  I have heard two Australian priests say (using the same terminology) that New Zealand is known to be a basket case!

    37. bamac July 21, 2014 at 9:40 am

      Michael Voris often has referes to Bishop Schneider … from memory Michael has asked us to pray for him and his work… the bishop I mean.

      Last week the way Holy Mass was celebrated left me feeling upset afterwards … later in the morning I watched and prayed through a Latin Mass on the internet … this brought back peace for me … God Bless the internet and my old computer !…..In Church we had had guitars and bass and songs sung by a youth choir  ( hearty clapping for them after Mass … I thought they were singing for God … silly me)… the number of special ministers seemed to have grown even more … the number fluffing around the alter at Communion time looked more like a stage peformance ( recolected wasn't I  !!!)

      Enough of me … God Bless both the very good bishop and Michael  …. and all of us and Holy Mother Church..

      Mrs Mac

    38. Teresina July 21, 2014 at 6:37 pm

      Yes, Mrs Mac, I can sympathise with how you felt.  That sounds like Sunday Mass at the Hamilton Cathedral.  I only go there if I have no other option and it is a real trial.  I never feel as if I have heard Mass when I go there.  A friend describes it as being at the supermarket and it is impossible to concentrate on the Mass.  In fact, when I got there I can't wait for Mass to be over.  

      I attended the 11.00 am Mass at St Patrick's Cathedral on Boxing Day a couple of years ago where one of the Monsignors was celebrating Mass.  He had so many lay ministers that he was spinning round like a top just before Communion telling them where to go and as it was he was constantly interrupting the Mass with ad lib comments.  Dreadful!  Thank God for the Latin Mass when we can get there and as you say to be able to be in attendance at one via the Internet is a great blessing.  I will be going to a Latin Mass in Wellington on Sunday and was lucky to get to a Latin Mass last weekend – not easy from Hamilton.

      You probably have this link but if not you may be able to watch live now and then.  God bless you, Mrs Mac, and thank you for that link for Michael Voris as I am now able to look at his videos – yes, I think he was an early promoter of Bishop Schneider! 

       http://www.livemass.org/LiveMass/home.html

    39. MarkO July 21, 2014 at 6:50 pm

      Dear bamac

      I know how you feel…you're not alone. I read an article by Bishop Schneider yesterday (sent to me by a family member) – about the great crisis in the Church as she's tempted to conform to the 'new paganism'. He's right on the button!

      Let us be in unity in prayer for a restored Catholic Church that I know in my heart will surely come to be in God's good time – through the power invested in Mary by The Trinty of God.

      God Bless and be at peace! Mark

    40. MarkO July 21, 2014 at 6:55 pm

      Hi Teresina! I read your post just now! Yes, yes and yes to what you've written. Michael certainly is a great promoter of the Truth. Let's pray for the continued success of his ministry!  God Bless! Mark

    41. Don the Kiwi July 21, 2014 at 7:48 pm

      Hi All.

      I agree with much that has been said. Teresina, we have TLM here at St.Mary's School every first Saturday in the chapel, commencing midday. Fr. Robert Sharplin come through from Whakatane to say it for us. There is a couple from Hamilton and a couple from Whakatane come through. There are usually 15 – 30 people attend. I think though for August it is Sat. 9th. I'll check.

      I agree with remarks concerning Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion – they are used too often, It has actually been a bug bear of mine for the past couple of years. Despite my constant correcting those concerned, they still call them "Eucharistic Ministers" whic is actually forbidden under "Sacrosanctum Concilium". They are "Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion" and should be called only that, and should be used only when needed in extraordinary circumstances. Also, they should not enter right into the Sanctuary, but should remain at the foot of the santuary. This is also an abuse which should be stopped – and now that we are having a change of PP, I will be pushing for this. It was actually introduced here about 5 years ago for when Msgr. Michael Brown was officiating at Mass because of his age and balance, not being able to take the sacred vessels to the EMoHC at the foot of the sancturay. But he has not officiated now for two years, so we ned to revert to what is was before uder Fr. Joe.

      Another issue I have is the receiving of Holy Communion under both kinds at every single Mass, and this has been going on for many years now. Ppeople have begun to think that unless one receives under both kinds one has not properly recived Holy Communion, which is, of course, ridiculous. I believe that receiving under both kinds should be reserved for once a month, and feast days, or special occasion for the parish. This is how they do it at Mt.Maunganui, and they do have very good liturgies there.

    42. Don the Kiwi July 21, 2014 at 7:53 pm

      I meant to add, that EMoHC's are – or should be – commisioned for two years – and if necessary, renew the commission. But it seems that once commissioned – and dubious training – it becomes a permanent thing, which again is spelt out quite clearly in Sacrosanctum Concilium.

    43. Rubyshine July 21, 2014 at 8:55 pm

      Don thanks for those thoughts on EMoHC and receiving both kinds of Holy Communion.

      I was at a different Parish some weeks ago and the EMoHC nodded and winked at me as he offered me the host. I was speechless, and it clearly wasn't the moment to suggest he be a little less, "friendly" so I just resolved to hop in the line with the priest if there was an option.

      Also I left the church 20 yrs ago, when there was only both kinds of communion on special days, so when I returned I was a little unsettled to see both being offered every week. I actually got to the point of feeling like I should be accepting both and a bit guilty for skipping the blood.

      Is there a reason for why it has become common for both to be offered at every mass? Why the change? I mean if both weren't offered would people complain? and if so why, because surely most older people grew up with only the host being offered at most masses, and that was the norm.

    44. Don the Kiwi July 21, 2014 at 10:11 pm

      I think like many things, Rubyshine, something that starts off as an exception and a privelege becomes commonplace and morphs into the normal. Being flawed human beings, we tend to become blasee about things. I'm sure that if we revert to what it used to be there will be some complaints – but I don't really concern myself too much about that. 

      Like receiving Holy Communion in the hand; when that first occurred back in the 5th. or 6th century, it was condemned as a heresy – because the people that carried out that practice had decided – "Jesus is our brother – therefore he is no better than me – so I don't need to kneel,  I can stand and receive in my hand" – or something like that.  Also , the concept of "The table of the Lord" as a meal tends to displace "The Altar of Sacrifice" – the representation of Calvary in an un-bloody manner, dumbs down the relity of the Substantial presence of Christ.

      There is no doubt that communion in the hand has led to a reduction in reverence for the Eucharist. Ceratinly many people do approach with reverence and humility, but I have noticed over the years that there is an unhealthy familiarity that has crept in which never occurred when receiving kneeling on the tongue.  There is an increasing practice in other countires to receive kneeling and on the tongue – in fact in the Vatican and some other places, it is the ONLY way one can receive communion. And I do note that it is increasing here too – mainly among young people.

    45. Don the Kiwi July 21, 2014 at 10:20 pm

      Actually, WRT communion in the hand, nowhere in the Vatican II documents did it suggest that this should occur; it was started by a few liberal priests and bishops, and grew like widfire around the world. It was initially condemned as an abuse and not authorised – but it had becaome so widespread that that method was granted as an indult – but the proper and correct method is still kneeling and on the tongue. Problem is that there is now nowhere in any churches where one can kneel to receive – maybe a very rare case or two, and I do know that if the altar rails were re-introduced there would be a howl of disaproval – especially from the feminist bunch – I have had this discussion a while back with a couple of loudly protesting women :-)

    46. MarkO July 22, 2014 at 12:02 am

      I made this video some time ago and re-uploaded it. It really does summarize in brief where I stand in relation to the world. How I accept The Christ – about how He sacrificed everything He had for us in every way one could and how much I love Him for what he did for us – and still does!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=App9cswRRSg

      Vatican I put it SO RIGHT!!!!

    47. Benedicta July 22, 2014 at 10:58 am

      Just referring to de Mattei's quote re schism. Undeclared but actual. This is not a startling peice of news. As Fr Blake (thing it was he who was mentioned) said 'over the last 150 years…orthodoxy struggling'. I presume then it was smothered in the final wrestle from 1959 and through Vatican II. Orthodoxy versus liberalism.

      I would prefer Catholicism versus Enlightenment and all its various ensuing ideologies.

      Its quite hard for anyone in modernity (or post-modernity) to escape completely these ideological currents….so manifold and deeply embedded. As GK Chesterton reminded us that Catholicism was what save a man from being a man of his times. But at the same time there is no 'pure Catholic orthodoxy' which anyone today can retrieve 'intact' from the pre-enlighenment era. Quite simply  we who profess to hold the Catholic faith may have Catholic hardware but the software is completely different. Some may have such faulty software that the hardware can't read it and so on. That they profess it however scrambled denotes a love for something they can't perceive for what it is….but then can any of us this side of eternity. It is Christ to determines fidelity in the end not us.

      Academics would argue the undeclared schism like this: As regarding the liberal/progressive movement in the Church….which is born of Enlightenment values and facilitated by its subsequent ideologies; its mode regarding the Church is to have such regard for the world that it requires the Church to take a bow in its direction in order to find who She truly is. The orthodox, on the other hand, have two theories where they stand. One group (the Lefebre would be the exemplar only) is that schism began in 1959, and at Vatican II ….when orthodoxy was overrun by progressism. A second group (I agree with this group too) that schism began in the 14th century and we have been dealing with it ever since in one form or another. Commensurate with this group is the thought that John Paul II at the philosophical level (to the metaphysical depths…at leasting pointing to the breach and then leading from it)healed that schism as regards the challenges thrown to Catholic realism by the unfolding of the Enlightenment. I think it important to trust that the riches that the Church needed have emerged…but they need time and another generation or two.  

      There is a new generation coming through….the JPII generation. It has solid foundations; not simply a romantic flutter wave toward the medieval Church….but something born from the authentic riches of the Catholic faith from the Church Fathers but encompassing and overcoming the challenges thrown down by the Enlightenment. It will be smaller but faithful and fruitful.

      Those who are putting together the synod on the Family pre documents (??) have mentioned, I think, that what the people need is Christian anthropology because they have lost the sense of themselves, body and soul, in light of their Christian calling to be like Christ. In a way, where the early Church through to St Thomas (the Cathars) were focused on explaining in human terms in fidelity to Revelation 'how to speak of God' in order not to fall into error, we are in an age where we need to do this for the human person. Where we lose sight of ourselves we lose sight of God. This is the Catholic task of our time. To miss this invites an impulse toward law as a sign of orthodoxy and not love.

      Unfortunately where Bishops don't recognise the foundations of things but only the surface currents of the times they unwittingly through all expressions of orthodoxy into the Lefebvre basket and section them all together at the cliff edge.

      This makes it at times challenging not to despair especially as parishes close, priests are few, progressives carry on, and isolation sets in.

      For this reason Vatican II documents encouraged prayer and contemplation, the Office etc for the laity. There are many resources. You do what you can and speak to those you can about the joy of faith in Christ in the Church.

       

    48. Benedicta July 22, 2014 at 11:10 am

      For what its worth I think New Zealand for the most part will suffer more deeply than it should have needed to. It has let liberal currents run too deep in the Church.

      A knowledgeable person told me that the Church in Belgium used to be amazingly Catholic. There were religious orders that were so many and so strong. Now Belgium is a Catholic shipwreck…a strange sort of place where Catholic imagery and architecture predominate and no one is 'at home' there. It suffered a massive fall literally out of Catholic practice, quite lapsed, because the religious orders became so liberalised and stopped flourishing. I read somewhere else that seventy monasteries will soon be completely abandoned with no one to carry on.

      With that sort of track record one can only wonder why, short of madness, any segment of the Church would continue to espouse progressive ideals. Either they are mad or they just don't know what to do. They are rightly afraid of certain forms of scholasticism (which as much as some might appreciate it and is I agree quite as toxic as progressivism) because it trys to face down the idealogies of the world with the right sort of philosophical argument….which gives a sort of victory but doesn't convince souls about Christ.

    49. Benedicta July 22, 2014 at 11:13 am

      Massive correction…..'certain forms of scholasticism….is NOT as toxic as progressivism'.

      Don't interpret that less charitably than you need to. The proof for the second form of orthodoxy is in John Paul II's own writings and continuous in his encylicals….its there…he wanted to give orthodoxy new wings and he did.

    50. Teresina July 22, 2014 at 1:29 pm

      The troubles is, Benedicta, modernism started on a small scale.  Bishop Schneider puts the blame firmly on communion in the hand – the beginning of a loss of the sense of the sacred.  For what it is worth, I have never taken communion in the hand in my life and nor have some others that I know.  Interestingly, to a person, we all have struggled for the preservation of the Latin Mass.  It wasn't easy, and I've mentioned before that we were pointed out in sermons and told we were being singular – but we held firm.  Today the Church is turning back to Communion on the tongue due to the foresight of some good priests around the world who instructed the faithful to keep strong and not to give into those practices which were an undermining of belief in the Real Presence and seriously undermining of the priesthood.  They also said we should received Communion only from the priest except in exceptional circumstances such as the infirmity of the priest.  In short, they were sticking to the rubrics of the Church which Don points out above. 

      Although I have never received Communion on hand I believe that my belief in the Real Presence has been watered down also by seeing others casually take Our Lord's body in their hands.  It wasn't until I watched the video of Bishop Schneider that I listened to how he viewed the taking of Communion – with such awe and reverence that when I received Communion the next day I had an awakened sense of the very presence of Our Lord and that we owe Him everything as Mark says and points out in his wonderful video.  We must never take these things for granted as it becomes easy to do.

      I heard that a priest who has been in Holland for three months says that the Faith has all but been wiped out there as Benedicta mentions has happened in other countries.  We Catholics are really getting what we deserve through our spurning of the great gift that we have been given.  Sure, there is a good lot of JPII priests coming through but if we don't fight for the Faith and stand up for what is right, who will they have to be shepherds to.  The reason they can close and sell off the churches is because there is a decline in the Faith.  It is our job to build it up and it is only orthodoxy that will do that.

      When we have good bishops and priests speaking out now is the time to act in our own areas.  Don is doing the right thing in requesting the Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist are not in the sanctuary during the priest's Communion – as also happens at the Hamilton cathedral and I have also seen some of them elevat the host with the priest before Communion.  So what can we do?  Well, promote Communion on the tongue to your friends.  Encourage people to kneel if they can.  Request a kneeler for those who wish to receive Communion kneeling, ladies cover your heads in the presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament – that in itself is an acknowledgement of Him not that we are subjugated to men as is claimed by feminists.  I notice a number of women from overseas cover their heads and so it is getting easier to do so for women without feeling out of place.  And we shouldn't care anyway because Our Lord comes first in all things.  These seemingly small things will grow.  If a few hadn't followed the direction of good priests and continued to receive on the tongue we wouldn't have that today.  Big things start small. 

      Personally, I don't think you could get a lovelier sight than this and these Christians have been driven out for their Faith:

      http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/07/19/world/IRAQ01/IRAQ01-articleLarge.jpg

    51. Vatican2Survivor July 22, 2014 at 2:20 pm

      Yes Benedicta

      Latin Mass suspends the worldy, infavour of timelessness- its prayers-like marble statues of Michelangelo sculpted in marble in pools of perception suspending banal linear sequential time and realitybut, turning instead to otherworldly rhythms we now have guitar masses–and the priests words no longer take you out of space and time to the altar of the Lord. because in the novos ordo Mass, what was once an interaction between soul and God in the , is now an interaction between soul and reptilian brain., A casual, radically worldly beat that goes back to our pre Christian carnal ancestry to guitar music and rhythms of kitsch art, music that dont take us forward but back to our archaic prechristian past to tie us to our lower limbic brain and to prliterate pagan sources of articulate experience, incapable of connecting us to memories, institutions, groups who constituted the group known as the Church Fathers. We see then in essence,progressives working thru a series of deflections of hidden archaism–bizarre beleifs on progress, repressed hatreds of orthodoxy obscure forms of illiciy sexuality, safegeurded , ironically by the veil of Progress.

    52. Benedicta July 22, 2014 at 5:13 pm

      Thanks.

      There are episodes and events which contribute to a deconstruction of the Catholic faith; liturgically, theologically and philosophically.

      I beg to differ that communion in the hand can account for the deep and rapid deconstruction of Catholicism that ensued from the 60s.

      The problem is asymptomatic, deep and prevailing and escalating in the world for centuries. The people in the Church are in the world and have also been shaped by it for the most part as well as by the practice of their faith. The Church in defending the faith against the erroneous ideologies of the world for centuries have either reacted polemically or given the enemy ground by formulating the faith too tightly around rationalist concepts in order to argue on the same turf apologetically.

      Quite simply it didn't work. Pope John Paul II addressed the ideological contentions at the source and has 'fed the people' the food they actually needed rather than rationalist defences of the faith and virtue read through law.

      In the end the world caught up and the people simply abandoned the faith because they weren't convinced of the faith, either through lack of faith or being wounded by the failures about them or/and cast off the moral law as oppressive having been primed effectively by the world's sense of individual autonomous freedom.

      In the scholastic enclosed circles they won the battles of argument and lost the war with many abandoning the faith.

      Time to build up again, and it will. But it will need more than liturgical corrections. Much more…

       

    53. Teresina July 22, 2014 at 5:38 pm

      Benedicta, I agree with Vatican2Survivor that with the awful music, clapping, etc at Mass it is now difficult to "have interaction between soul and God".  I agree also with Bishop Schneider who says that this is the fourth crisis of the Church – it is far too sweeping to say that we have always been like this when it is obvious the Church hasn't.  As the Bishop says:

      "So serious are the problems, Bishop Schneider said in an interview last week, that this is the fourth great crisis in the history of the Church, comparable to the fourth-century Arian heresy in which a large part of the Church hierarchy was implicated.

      If you have not heard of the Soviet-born bishop, you will. The sincere, scholarly clergyman is auxiliary bishop of the distant Archdiocese of St Mary in Astana, Kazakhstan. But this month he has received a rock star welcome from congregations across the country on his tour of England and he has embraced cyberspace to put over a trenchant, traditional defence of the Church. “Thanks be to God, the internet exists,” he said.

      His views are not popular with everyone, especially not some of his liberal colleagues, or, he says, with the mainstream media of the secular world. But his audiences tell another story.

      Bishop Schneider is best known for arguing that Holy Communion should be received on the tongue while kneeling, which he insists is the more efficient way to foster respect for the Sacrament and to prevent abuse of the Sacred Hosts. The 53-year-old bishop has called also for clarification (a new Syllabus of Errors), aimed at the clergy, to put a stop to liturgical and doctrinal freewheeling on a range of issues in the “spirit of Vatican II”.

      In his interview, Bishop Schneider said the “banal” and casual treatment of the Blessed Sacrament is part of a major crisis in the Church in which some laity and clergy, including some in positions of authority, are siding with secular society. At the heart of the problems, he believes, is the creeping introduction of a man-centred agenda, while in some churches God, in the tabernacle, really is materially put in a corner, while the priest takes centre stage. Bishop Schneider argued that this situation is now coming to a head. “I would say, we are in the fourth great crisis [of the Church], in a tremendous confusion over doctrine and liturgy. We have already been in this for 50 years.

      Pope Francis is perceived to be at the forefront of a new liberal attitude coming from Rome. But Bishop Schneider says: “Thanks be to God, Pope Francis has not expressed himself in these ways that the mass media expect from him. He has spoken until now, in his official homilies, very beautiful Catholic doctrine. I hope he will continue to teach in a very clear manner the Catholic doctrine.”

      The bishop said he hopes “the majority of the bishops still have enough Catholic spirit and faith that they will reject the proposal and not accept this”.

      Nevertheless, he can foresee a split coming, leading to an eventual renewal of the Church on traditional lines. But, he believes, this will not be before the crisis has plunged the Church further into disarray. Eventually, he thinks, the “anthropocentric” [man-centred] clerical system will collapse. “This liberal clerical edifice will crash down because they have no roots and no fruits,” he said."

      What he is saying is true – there is no roots and no fruits and this has been long evident to those who have eyes to see and ears to listen …

      "

      Such comments are unlikely to win Bishop Schneider popularity in some circles, but he argues: “It is quite insignificant to be popular or unpopular. For every member of the clergy, their first interest should be to be popular in the eyes of God and not in the eyes of today or of the powerful. Jesus said a warning: ‘Woe to you when people speak well of you.’”

      He added: “Popularity is false… Great saints of the Church, such as Thomas More and John Fisher, rejected popularity… those today who are worried about the popularity of the mass media and public opinion… will be remembered as cowards and not as heroes of the Faith.”

      Bishop Schneider observes ruefully that there are many whose views coincide with those of the pagan world who “declare themselves Catholics and even faithful to the Pope”, while “those who are faithful to the Catholic faith or those who are promoting the glory of Christ in the liturgy” are labelled extremists.

      Such critics may assert that Bishop Schneider’s concern over Holy Communion is like worrying over the numbers of angels on a pinhead. But the bishop insists that treatment of the Eucharist is at the very heart of the crisis. “The Eucharist is at the heart of the Church,” he said. “When the heart is weak, the whole body is weak.”

      http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/2014/06/06/bishop-athanasius-schneider-we-are-in-the-fourth-great-crisis-of-the-church/

      Tough talk from the bishop but we're in tough times and we hear NOTHING from those who should be speaking out … except tolerance … let's hope the devil is tolerant when they get there!

    54. Rubyshine July 22, 2014 at 8:23 pm

      Ok so I count myself as a feminist, and I really don't see how altar rails have anything to do with anything feminist, unless one was suggesting that men didn't need to kneel but women do. Don can you enlighten me as to what thinking the women you spoke with had?

      Can someone remind me what the purpose of women covering their head in mass is? Is it for modesty purposes? A general sense that covering your head is more respectful? Something else?

      I ask because I find it disrespectful to keep my head covered when I'm inside, perhaps an NZ cultural thing. Then I thought it was about women being modest, but the pic Teresina shared of the women wearing veils really isn't of women covering their hair, but of the suggestion that they are, which seems pointless to me.

      I do keep thinking about going to a Latin mass, but the head covering issue makes me hesitate. I certainly don't want to offend anyone, but it goes against my own sense of what is proper.

      As to receiving in the hand vs the tongue, I think part of the issue of receiving in the hand is that it brings in a greater element of interaction with the person offering the host and other members of the congregation. You troop up in a line, you make space for people as that cut in and out of the line returning to their seat, you watch the priest take out the host (I have watched an EMoHC fish around and pick up and discard two or three options before offering me one), make eye contact with the priest (which always makes me wonder about whether I should smile or not), you take the host wait for the person who was in front of you to move far enough away so that you can move out of line etc etc. 

      Where as, if you go up and kneel then you wait in prayer for the priest to offer the host. No awkward shuffling in lines or distracting interaction with anyone.

      So I'm not so bothered about whether receiving in the hand is inherently more or less respectful, but I do think the pure logistics of receiving in the hand creates a distraction from what should be a moment of great solemnity.

    55. Teresina July 22, 2014 at 9:32 pm

      Rubyshine, as regards veiling you may have missed it but John Whyte commented a few months ago that women don't have to cover their heads to attend a traditional Latin Mass.  The Mass I go to would be half and half so you wouldn't feel uncomfortable it you didn't wear a head covering.  However, I was talking about the Novus Ordo Mass where I am noticing that some women from India and other Asian countries cover their heads and I admire them for it.  I also started wearing a  head covering to Mass about five years ago.  I always wear a veil at the Latin Mass but I thought to myself,  "Our Lord is present at the Novus Ordo Mass, just as He is in the Tridentine Mass" so I decided there and then that I would wear a head covering also to the Novus Ordo Mass out of respect for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.  It immediately felt right and I feel naked when I enter a church if I have no head covering.  When I enter the Church, even just to pay a visit, I now cover my head.  If I didn't have a head covering with me I would still go in but I prefer to cover my head.  It is a simple thing – an outward sign – like a genuflection to Our Lord in the tabernacle.  It is interesting that the Jews cover their heads as do the Moslems and yet they don't have the gift of the Real Presence as we do.  There is not really enough we can do to show our love and respect to Him.  I notice some women attending the Novus Ordo Mass broadcast on EWTN are also starting to cover their heads.  It makes me immediately aware of where I am and in Whose presence I am coming into.  It's not easy to do I will admit but I don't care what people think.  Our Lord knows my heart and He knows I wear a head covering out of belief in the Real Presence as all women in the Catholic Church once used to do – and interestingly that was never officially stopped.  Like many Catholics who don't bother now to genuflect or make the sign of the cross women just didn't bother to cover their heads – including me.

    56. Don the Kiwi July 22, 2014 at 9:34 pm

      Hi Rubyshine.

      Altar rails. The feminist's (in this case) opinion is that the rails separated the sanctuary from the congregation because it is sacred space where only the ordained priesthood (men) should be (think Moses and the burning bush) but they think anyone should be able to enter there – during Mass or not. But all need to kneel as a sign of humility before Our Lord , and reverence and worship to our God.

      The covering of hair by woman harks back to the instruction by St. Paul in one of his letters, that goes something like- " Because a woman's hair is her crowning glory, it is appropriate that she cover it as a sign of her humility before her Lord."

       You need to remember that many men have no hair to cver anyway. ;-) – especially after a certain age – whereas women tend to keep their hair looking good into their old age.

      I do know several women in our parish that cover their hair with a mantilla like those in Teresina's photo – a couple of them are not older women

    57. Benedicta July 22, 2014 at 10:02 pm

      Eventually, he thinks, the “anthropocentric” [man-centred] clerical system will collapse.

      The anthropocentric system mentioned was formulated in the early part of the 14th century.

      I don't know if there will be a schism we are well past the Reformation mode of thinking of things. Rather I would think there would just be further falling away rather than this side against another.

      There is nothing wrong with the Latin Mass or the Novus Ordo. Unfortunately one is seen as the domain of the liberal and the other as the domain of the orthodox. My only objection in both cases is that they become political rallying points. The issues are much deeper and persistent. It isn't a matter of sweeping the past centuries with 'always like this'. The fact is the major challenges over the centuries since the early 14th century have been 'anthropocentric' in nature. The Arian crisis was of another 'Christocentric' problem…who Christ is.

    58. Benedicta July 22, 2014 at 10:19 pm

      Rubyshine

      What does being a feminist really mean?

      I ask because I think it is very problematic for Christian anthropology. For instance it establishes itself on a false dualism between  male and female which either denies the distinction at all or sets them up against each other in a confrontational stance.  This can't reside in Catholicism as Revelation manifests male and female complementarity. This is the disclosed truth from the beginning of scripture until the end.

      I think its better to hold to the eternal feminine principle.

    59. Benedicta July 22, 2014 at 10:30 pm

      It seems important to me to get past the rally points and try to get deeper into the truths of what is going on. Not following this opinion or that opinion but trying to get to grips with the foundations of things in so far as its possible. Where love is and where its leading? It isn't always that apparent.  

    60. Teresina July 22, 2014 at 11:01 pm

      I don't think it is a question of following this opinion or that opinion.  The Church is obviously in a bad way.  We are simply not getting any proper guidance from our own bishops.  Good bishops (albeit from overseas) and good priests are filling that gap.  We rely on bishops to give guidance and Bishop Schneider is doing that.  What he is saying doesn't fall into the realm of opinion because he has the teaching authority of a bishop. 

      In speaking of Communion in the hand he said:

      "There is the grievous fact of the loss of the Eucharistic fragments. And the fragments of the consecrated Host are crushed by feet. This is horrible! Our God, in our churches, is trampled by feet!”

      Bishop Schneider admitted that he is “very sad that I am feeling myself as one who is shouting in the desert”.

      He said: “It is time that the bishops raise their voices for the Eucharistic Jesus who has no voice to defend himself. Here is an attack on the Most Holy, an attack on the Eucharistic faith.”

      But despite his concerns, Bishop Schneider is not pessimistic and believes that there is already a groundswell of support for traditional values that will, in time, renew the Church: “Little ones in the Church have been let down and neglected,” he said. “[But] they have kept the purity of their faith and they represent the true power of the Church in the eyes of God and not those who are in administration.

      “I spoke with young students in Oxford and I was so much impressed by these students. I was so glad to see their purity of faith and their convictions, and the clear Catholic mind. This will renew the Church. So I am confident and hopeful also in respect of this crisis in the Church. The Holy Ghost will win this crisis with this little army.”

      He added: “I am not worried about the future. The Church is Christ’s Church and He is the real head of the Church, the Pope is only the vicar of Christ. The soul of the Church is the Holy Spirit and He is powerful.”

      Bishop Athanasius Schneider’s book Dominus Est: It is the Lord! is published by Newman House Press. His work Corpus Christi: Holy Communion and the Renewal of the Church, is published by Lumen Fidei Press"

    61. Rubyshine July 22, 2014 at 11:03 pm

      Benedicta, when I say I'm a feminist I mean I look for an equality of dignity between men and women. I don't mean that men and women are the same. Nor am I thinking simply on a local scale.

      It bothers me that women in other countries are jailed for having sex outside of marriage if they complain of rape. It bothers me that women in our country will be called ***** if they are promiscuous while young men are congratulated. It bothers me that people might look sideways at a man who wants to be a nurse/florist/hairdresser/nanny or a woman who wants to be a mechanic/truck driver/rugby player/boxer etc etc.

      You often hear people bemoaning the "ladette" culture many young women have slipped into of binge drinking and promiscuity, as though it is worse for young women to do these things. The reality is that there's nothing nice about a young man vomiting in the gutter or sleeping around either.

      I don't think allowing equality in pay, options, opportunities and expectations undermines the very real differences between the genders. I think there is space for both equality where it matters, as well as fairness where there are differences. That is when fairness doesn't mean getting the same thing, but rather getting what you need. 

      I embrace being a woman. I relish the privileges that come with womanhood. I acknowledge the very real differences between men and women. I embrace and appreciate men for all of their gifts. BUT I will fight all day long to apply for any job I want, to spend my leisure time in anyway I see fit, to create the family life that works for my husband and I, and to walk down the street in whatever length skirt suits me and should someone attack me to have the finger of blame pointed squarely at the attacker.

      In terms of the church, I was challenged with the idea of only men as priests, but once someone here explained the idea of a priest taking on the persona of Christ (not sure I have that phrase just right), and because I'm completely accepting of men and women being physically different that all slipped into place for me. To the point where, to me women moaning about not becoming priests is a little like the idea of a man complaining he can't give birth…well he just can't.

      Which brings me back around to Don and the altar rails. To my mind the sanctuary is a sacred place that only the ordained should be in (when we had our marriage ceremony we signed the registrar up on the altar which was incredibly uncomfortable for me, made only worse by me stepping backwards and knocking into the tabernacle :)) The fact that, that therefore makes the sanctuary a male only space is ok with me.

      BUt having said all of that, can you please explain the eternal feminine principle, because I've not heard that phrase, and you're right it might fit better for me.

       

       

    62. Teresina July 22, 2014 at 11:21 pm

      I appreciate a lot of what you say, Rubyshine.  I think the lack of respect towards women and treating them as chattels has given rise in many respects to feminism.  In a Christian society with Christian principles that should not have happened. However, I think that a lot of what has happened with regards to equal rights for women has impacted heavily on the family.  For example, equal pay.  In the past a man could get a living wage to support his family and his wife could stay at home and bring up the children.  This is what God intended. With all the will in the world, I don't think men can replace a mother in the home and nor do I think that women can replace a father in the home.  The mother is there to provide tenderness and love; the father is the strength of the home the provider, the shelterer.  I don't believe men and women can realistically swap these roles and the children not miss out in some way.  Sure, some men like to be stay at home fathers and I am sure they are good but they will never be a mother.  Sure, some women can earn a good living but they will never be a father.  I know my father died when I was in my teens.  My mother  became the mother, home maker and provider.  She was a wonderful mother but I can say she could never replaced what I missed and what other girls had and that is a father to go to for reassurance and confidence.  A mother just cannot provide that.  I would not go to my father either for the sweet love and care that my mother provided – a father cannot provide that.  God has made things as they are and we need to respect that and all the changes that society have made, in going against God's plan and deciding that we know better, have only been to the detriment of the family and mankind in general.

      By and large, women set the standards.  If we have decent, pure women, by and large, we won't have drunk men in the gutters. In our society we only have prostitutes and such like because some women choose that life.

    63. Abenader July 22, 2014 at 11:27 pm

      Benedicta, just a query:

      " Where we lose sight of ourselves we lose sight of God".

      I thought it was the other way and that is more the resaon why we are where we are. The focus should be on God and it is only through Him, with Him and in Him that we 'find' ourselves. And this brings in Teresina's point about communion in the hand which goes hand in glove with the lack of reverence, so pervasive today.

       

    64. Rubyshine July 22, 2014 at 11:28 pm

      I'll also fight against the blatant sexualisation of girls in the media, misogyny in song lyrics, and false beauty standards set up by advertising, because these things are crushing our girls and distracting them and the boys from what really matters, and when the dignity of our girls, who will become women, is do blatantly disregarded then they are damaged and the dignity of our boys is also damaged and no good comes of it.

    65. Abenader July 22, 2014 at 11:56 pm

      Rubyshine

      Headcovering "because of the Angels"

      Maybe this will explain (bit of a long article)

      http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.co.nz/2010/08/head-coverings-because-of-angels.html

    66. Vatican2Survivor July 23, 2014 at 7:47 am

      Benedicta,

      'There is nothing wrong with the Novus Ordo Mass'

      Liturgical expert and Pope, Benedict concluded a comparision of the two Masses by way of calling the Novus Ordo Mass a' fabrication', 'a banal on the spot product'.

      Suffice to say,I think connections can be made to his writngs to the issues at hand which would be extremally beneficial and would extricate us from what appears to be good.

      As to the feminist arguments so far given here –the strengths are weakened in my very inexpert opinion, by submission to a narrow, notion of gender  dialectics that is demonstrated here. There is an intensity and acuteness of perceptions that occur from examinations of the subjugation theme–but a lack of a corresponding acuteness in perception of the ways men have been manipulated by women.As in the archetypal problem of Delia and Salmson as, more recently revisiting us by way of the horizontal feminine Novos Ordo liturgy, as in the loss elsewhere of the masculine enthusiasms fired and exemplified by Elijah and the total loss of the militarist themes of the scritpures.From a different angle,the applicability of the revelations and insights of Our Lady of Fatima insightsinto our present historic predicaments arises, not from scholastic plotted data charts,or alienating complex language, but from perfect heavenly perception of one possessing the beatific vision, that is free from, methodology limits, political distortions,, and other deformations of historic narratives of particular places, times, and groups of individuals. For this reason–we could well take note of her warning Russia if ot converted would spread her errors through outr the world.–the overarching themes of recentnhistory have indeed, true to her warning, been the dilution of Christianity by infusion of marxist materialist error–its inumerable subtle forms fill our ordinary idea of what is and what is not a  given. Now, one expression of that error is the dialectic of class struggle –but a close mutation or adaptation of this error must be gender conflict.If we link our discussions to Fatima in detail, I wonder just how many of the knots in our discussions would unravel quite easily, or close offother possible scenarios.It seems from our discussions Fatima is a unappreciated event tho

    67. Teresina July 23, 2014 at 11:19 am

      That is very well summed up, Vatican2Survivor.  I agree that, in our society at least, men have largely been subjugated and their masculinity has been undermined by strident feminism.  It could be concluded that that has led to the rise of homosexuality in our society as well.  Russia is indeed continuing to spread her errors throughout the world, as Our Lady of Fatima warned.  All these things of course have been overshadowed or lost in the last 50 years with the rise of modernism in the Church.  The now very weaked form of Catholicism is being driven out.  We see Christians being driven out of Mosul, etc.  So we need to turn to God in prayer to help us, especially through the most powerful means of the Rosary.

    68. Vatican2Survivor July 23, 2014 at 11:28 am

      In my comment that' progressive'  work is a  disguised return to pre Christian paganism is incorrect. An apt caveat is needed.Namely  that the  adrogenous, reallyneither male nor female psychology of the NovusOrdo liturgy, if anything,is not a return to pagan prechristianity, but something that actually lacks the grandeur of the pagan Roman Emperor rituals, lacks the grandeur of such an awful return.Otherwise there are provided sufficiently close and coherent analogies and connections to suggest a common historic matrix so the point, in my opinion, is that disappointingly robbed of the purest treasures of the faith existing prior to thecritical transformations from early to medieval toReformation mentalities,that treasure is being returned in the form of the Latin Mass,not as a mere expression of an ideology but as a regaining the purist sources of Christ's love which, transcending conflicting hegemonic and counter hegemonic pressure groups in the Church,is  again becoming our internal mental machinery or mechanics of the soul.

    69. Vatican2Survivor July 23, 2014 at 12:05 pm

      Teresina,

      'So we need to turn to God in prayer to help us, especially through the most powerful means of the Rosary'. Beautifully summed up–simply, but comprehesively.

    70. bamac July 23, 2014 at 12:07 pm

      Rubyshine,

      There are , in our parish , a handful of women who wear mantillas to Holy Sacrifice of the Mass on Sundays and week days   In the link that Abenader gave us above it mentioned submission

      I feel that , for me anyway , I wear it more out of abandonment to God in whose presence we are when we enter our church     When I put it on I thank God for the great grace that he has given me to come to church and,spend time with Him in His Eucharistic presence   if it be for Holy Mass, of joining in offering Him to the Father and myself and my life along with Him.

      Have never thought about the angel aspect Abenader …thank you for the link though .  Admittedly I have had a few looks as I wear my mantilla … still if they want to think of me a poor little old lady who is stuck in pre-Vat11 times and hasn't moved on ,   well that is their problem and not mine!

      God Bless,

      Mrs Mac