Person of the Year

Time's Person of the Year is one of the more prestigious and long-running end-of-year awards going in in popular media. I was surprised to see Pope Francis selected as their choice for 2013. I'm surprised not for anything to do with the Pope at all; simply that a prominent Catholic is being given such a positive endorsement in mainstream media. 

Over the last few years, between the Da Vinci code "truths" being uncovered, the scandal of priest abuse, and the Church's increasingly out-of-step-with-pop-culture teachings on homosexuality, abortion, marriage etc, the word "Catholic" has seemed to be almost a byword for scorn and ridicule. It has been a very long time since media agencies picked up in any substantial way on positive catholic news. A local example – did you know that Sister Loyola Gavin , 91 years old, was honoured in the New Years Honours lists? Probably not, as the headlines focussed almost exclusively on the fashion designers, authors and ex-mayors who were also chosen.

To see a prestigious publication such as Time honour our leader is interesting to reflect on. Does it signify the beginning of a shift towards our church by mainstream media? Or does it simply mean that Pope Francis himself is seen as more "interesting" than his predecessor? Or is his message more palatable than Pope Benedicts?

He has certainly brought a different philosophy to the papacy – he is very focussed on what he sees as the pastoral church and has made some interesting challenges to religious about engaging with people, not doctrine, as the focus of their work. He has produced many interesting "soundbites" – read through the article linked to above, and you'll find opinion expressed on homosexuality, divorce, the place of women in the church, the poor, and many more topics. I think it's because of this quotability, and his seemingly "softer" stance on some of these issues, that he is received so well. 

Are we witnessing a change in the media's attitudes towards Catholics? Or is our new Pope just a passing pop culture fad? 

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    Comments: 53

    1. John Whyte January 9, 2014 at 2:05 pm

      Boanerges,

      I think it is inevitable that the 'media' and 'the world' will turn on the Holy Father.  After all the crowds who cried Hosana, three days later some were chanting "Let his blood be on us and on our children"  

      The world desperately needs mercy, it needs to be told "I do not condemn you either."  The problem is that it hates the tail end of that phrase of "Go and sin no more".  Francis is excellent at showing that mercy, but many of the media haven't caught up with the fact that he detests sin.  

    2. Teresina January 9, 2014 at 3:18 pm

      I think this is why Pope Francis is popular:

      http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/11/see-pope-francis-clown-around-with-newlywed-couple/

      and this:

      http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/news-photo/pope-francis-is-seen-with-a-rosary-thrown-by-a-pilgrim-on-news-photo/184349506

       

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fF935U3DGS3Bm1wXnstxTFYibd7Dd5qJvd4qRA2MmCI1gChuLWCl0pcKW00nK2ZgN5idzG5FR9iuz13FOlx7lpbctowJLQIiFiNT15bHnN2l4WVdwrBQYiNtzEkAc2b60MtEcibq/4LjbjSIsNxGzbGVVZgCR4jCkdTAE/ryqDGce1HdraQCDtOvPQR6a0nFoqygw2o1Gs70Rdfw/DmgrI667ada09+WyQrShr2UL3b7kvegiTl8C7g+J4JjpodztXPGcMWcnJcmMpZ2Dz4swJaASdYk8oq/wDZHF4kotsYfukUDMfCDtzBMxziq92ie+bjAZCY0m4kxMA5ZMD76yzzPVx/Q2MNuSq2sfesBktr/mqo0QyusmCNtJ5GmeAwL2LEWc6Yq4VRV1UC2Y01ADE+LnpE6a0VwZ7lsZ0u22vuQgssxyAaGSy6TpsOTGnXDbBxN8u123irgt5LgQlbVg5joArS8icsjkTzFdDArRkz0ls/4DOG4IYLD5cTeUgsIyBoSdSuYeJhPOBvVebiK4w3EAQ2Fu/s7zFVY5SpgZyGYgScx5aGaD4tZw54hbTviwzSQDpbIEd30DEjLJ/eFOO01kvdBtmT4ZWNLek5JtzPPU7QdSBV55aY2vsXgnKX+N8FmftHg08PdW/CANWU7ADcTNaqvYXsxeuIrgW1DCYec3v4vesrJcnvZo+PoXcYkpE6kE/hy9arFi4BoBG+gHn5k/fTvtHi8rhIkt4RHLQsTQvZ/gdzEXO7QAk6k6wo01Jitb1OVCo0lZBhAzuFVGdjsFEn5DevQeBdgyQr4to590v0zNPzA+dWvs32es4O3ltiXPxufiY/gvlTV60wxJbsVPK3wI+K933fd5VQqIXKANB0A+zrt/vXkXF7zC7cD6aZdPYg+kgV6x2h4UbgzIYZdR+U9CNK874/gTcU6RcSdOv8NVmD6aellVKxIAAkyY69ant7aUO7yZorCqTsCfLmfL+tZmbSfhdlrjwNMsk9IGpqHCX7rs5W8yeJsq6bZiB91NOA2mVLzuMvgjbqf6VXeH3TkWQNQCeuutU262FNXKhticTibcTiQJMeIN+DVu3xrFaft7RB6n8yaBxd/wCDNrlmNdx+jWYi8hyqsCRKkj4dYI6nY86ZFOlZmm6k0hp/jGLG4tt6/wDwqS3xTFNqLFth6r9xApU2BOUS4kzs0SQNYlulQNY3Nt5MDNBO+h351NJNf5D5eL4jngxp/L/5CoX7QMp8WEIPl/RzQD2riZYYmd/HtpqCNecR60NdtXZzZiemsQI10jyqKPsmsbHtEv8A9vcHpm/Ca5ftBaA8Vq4PVW/FaXJhrgtu7u+kxBJEyACVieZ2+lR2sYNnV3XmACsjnBIMetDNafAcJ6r3Lv2LVLl4tlDFVzIhK6sdVgN0jl5Ur41hLmGe4cQmXOzGRGXxGZBXRiJ2360/wNlP7kWw9tRee3oSGdgxA8KCJkAgSOcxtSy5xd2t4dWtpddgQRcBYgfaUruTmWJO8TSXHaysk2qgvIx4dwwGzedbtwliYUq4+MEhvC3iJBHhE+dZ2M4VFwutsM7xIvKwXKoiRO5nXzJqTtBxq/aw2GCFbJL5XVAygCI2kHTTfTXepOA4u8LoOdsmUwviCmOWYHwmBM9aycMet0Ie1tvNcYhLZUxvPiI2+yAD76a0mwHYW66d49yzZVhmQG4GY6wAQp0HrUPEsbdDvluvOZvhzdTr9an7P4++97LduvEH+Fp5atHM/oTRYrjHYk6bLh2N4LhMKc1y7be6oklTf+LWCVU5dNBtSHjPEsLddiWthwTqy3QPM6XDvuP0ac4TDKWg+INoXLgkDUwcrGZIy66CvPeJ2P2rwBGYxrvrymqpznuWtlsWfhGGwBYm8+cQCFtORDA6yX1II8/rTZcdgWJQYe2hXYsVMnU8gCeUa8j1rzQWIJJVog7Ov3VcuCWSUBUWo55kmCS8QQpJ0U61eSMktmUqvcs3D+LWk8NsYe3pDM7kAkHmZHkBr1qudrO0NxboATDsIzSkMGnqQTqI+tHOUtBmuJZYAgtKvOQkA6EAab7/ADpJ2ysKLqrbVVUBiOsSIk6/o0EE/wDb/v7BSa8C5e0uUz/drM66gQfoKacG7TNnAtWQrQdQYAHnA1jTl99Vu7hWj7PuP/5rMHYYOqswVX8OZNxtPLoZ9q0RUX/6LldDSxxLD28TduX8MbgbPlVlLDNMlljTU7HbWdJqx8I4xhnwwxGI0drjKRmIZfFC+GeS5TPmaVdreEK3dMl93MC2ubKJVftDKPbX61XLnBmIktOh+1sf+Hby+6tTnFLSzPCLvUj0kcOa547ffOh+F1Cww2BHiE7bxrvWVRsLxfEWUFtMUyqogDvBpz5pWUrt4PX9h6snv+hk2GuYrGi3aGZsrGOQzECSeQAXevXOzHBreDti2hzXG1d+p6DoBrApPwvhyYC00QcTdAzt0A2QeQ19SSelOWum3bnnAUfzHc/fXQhBLfyZ5TbVDdb0kxsNK7zUutYgKoA9B5+dR4jGwLjHZNB67CmiyXH8TtpodSdgP1tVR4ldS+ZC5H5Hk3kaHwuINy8zEzlVj9I/GoQdazylY+Kop3FcLkvEHSfER9/1++iMNYyNabYsl1o6KPCvsS01aeK8OVst+JKiG0mR/Sq/jb4bEt/DZQf8Tk/copMo1Y/uWkjrF3SuEvsYGkD2BNVzC2/CI5RpTjtNdCYXKftOJ9JApTax9oDS4gPTMPzpLT0qhkWtTJrqqYmAygxI9yJn9RSLtYCGtg5djoDTW+VcjQmTIIPUgT6QOXWk/alFF5Qu2Wfcma1RVIxt3IUF2Gkn5mue9cbM3zNdFq5NQKjsYy4DOdp6zTvsvfuPc8TEogzGWgDUfOkFWjsahi8RAMINRykk/dVoGWyHmIDLYuuToNVUx1zRoekUX2X4A+KD3Hbu7agmYJZzEhVE+mtGcMW1KC5b7zNdQhM2kqqnOfTc+QNNOJ4u2veWcLBOpyK4C25AnnMEA6xuaXlqy8V6Wd8b4eDhw2HvMEw6+HL4c77RJPJo16ztSPs4AoKOAGukXFJ3BGw6iUzafvZabWrriwwxKmFVR3asDmJAYnw+ZO+5jzFDYzHIiWnygFtJZVMsOWYDMGykGRA3HSublm5NxS2NsYR2l5JMaLiOttmGUJcuyVVuWY6TJ0KgDz00oThV1wgOq5pyrtv4sw/d3Bn+IVxxsd42ZWJZREKxgDQazvIzaDbbap8Hg7q21dhoigSCG0UmJykxAj5Vl+K5f8min6FbWFu98UADpJKBRDqJD5fMaGOk1HwHD/tV0kDORHTwn8x70biAouf3hLyKZVoH70wRLRJ5n1PnDbB3ES61zKEtqV8Ph3B8Q0O35+VGslC3Gyw4cEBVCa2mIAgwSJYkT11MHmOhrze1ZBxHijQhtpnQGIO8zzr0nBXQbV4kqjicuo3IIAIjXQn86o74cJi5JGWRrMSAqqfqDT9Skk0xVNOmJ79gMwgfGWUwRGukCrJ2MSbXOIBn3vajy/GaSYli1zMs/GWAA0A0I208varfwnBhUdVBHhI89dfvdxH8JqJkaCO1/DT3TIQAwUIpUaEFZlmH2tJ96qfahGa8XbNJM+JSujAmYIG+lX3FKbtvQAlhGUFjJK5QRO410jqfKq12stEkmG8IsjVMuxyxsOUH9RR5HYMCq3rmgU9c0e0a+33UDfBAn91g3tqpOnLWjsQvP9fdW7NnOGBgAjLPqIB+YB9qXHbcYwQ8Qshwc8EaEEH8qmw5W8rBLgPprE+W9VbiuHOaYOsT4dmGjD5gfOr/ANj71lMCGZUdg2VlJhgSZLR6DQn8Kdkiox1IXHd6QS3hyBASz/wfmKynH7D/AOlc9oI9iVrKz9yQzQizi6bt9Z1lpPtrTLjN7xIg5a0r4FreJ/dBqe7czXieleghxZy5cjey0kdAJpbxq9lsAc3Ysf170fhj4WPlFV7tDiJIA2UR+f31MrqJIbsj4Rb8F1v4Y+dDsdRTDCCMKx/eaPlS27uKQ1shy5Y74cuZCKoOJsm1ibwYfaQL5qFke0sR7V6BwM1V/wC0vCOqretkrBytEag7Hbkf+qryQuFkhKp0LVxLZhAXnuJj60YmLc8rZ9Vqn2eK3o/zGj0H5VPa4zfH2z8h+VZlGS4ZoaT8HOJUNcPiPikkDSDmLAA8htVd49dJvGdwAP1NPMJazydiNSfQDX61W+Ia3X9eQjl0rQZY8kFaNdVyKqhlo3Vk7N3cttyYALKOftAGnPnVcp5wq2TZMfv7/wCmiSAm9iycTe21u0HUlO8GYAwxGQQMw2AImp+C3jbc9xIzHKneHMQDv0k6b8qWXvGbYEEFmJBkbSOQJiieFY5LzYdFTIUuSTvmBdTE/OkdRqUrRMUdUa/M5Lvdyq2J7wsTGYtAI2AzKOQphe7TmySHsAx4cuZomJLAOTkbYadOVK+FWM96woAJZnEESs5W5EHQGDqPOmPa2y2HXDqq2t3+zmUiBEBwRzI9qCcI61H3+gcJvQ5ev1FmL7TyzHI8mJJKzy38Pp8qCHae4ZEaf6f/AB/WtEkWmsvca2MyzmMLvHh06bUjw+NIAGW3H/4kJ+ZFK7WOTaUeBvdmknfI5tdqyIzIGjaVQj3DJB5fKirPatv/AHF1b4yFTWfKBSbH8SUshS1ZgDnZtgmI3AEdaYYNkay1w21YoDmOUf6THP8ApVZMWNQtx/kkMk3Kkyw8M/tINpsrWFK6kBHjNroTIbxdYPKlXFu0yted1tFQxkDMCROpk89SaFu2Ldyxh8tu0lwAtcuIYZhPhUgQBGYa7mN4ApbxLChWbZYUEAxJJiNTMj8qFQhelB6pVbL72fwneLbuOUUOM6KTOaP3lCEH09qsNnFtlJKLlEKcuUbajQNP2iT/ADV5b2a4muWLjHIusAkRMCUExO/yq0XbeZi1u4c+pKuAhOmpGysTzE0vJHS6ZaaZdbOMtiApKsIYyCBIIMDLqfUdaA4tjM6szQo8KtkBLEBs4PigEggaE7VX+Edp3swmZQCRq+gnzOUiPejsZ2gvgMC+HJIzQHAnmNABOgql9yys3GUEjQ+4H3TFYmQxLAAa78/ZfKkZ7QvyK+pY7RERMVi8fuCQHUAiIDT7686vsy9F6kOOJ27V6RoPNfimN/h6xv1PlSXDcMuKyuJyq4BMHLOhidj6Vz/i9wjR5JGpmf8AaisJxi7AtsXIuMOcjeBp+J9vNsIziqAlXJ6aMTcAGRYWAQDYDbifijUdD0it0ws2yqqpa4CFAICkjbkcp06a/Lat1nGgPAGhXbrUtlok8zSzA4nKhFSLfJ3r0EPpRy5clksvFqaqfEHlvrVjxLxYHmKqmOfxfIUrPwkXj5Hz6YW0Osn6mlLnxU64muW3aXoo+6kM+M1WRVQUCwcHNFcbwa3rTIwkEEGheH6CmNxtKfFfGhcnvZR+G9lsLdvC0WuKefxepAO1XN+yGCiDYUAc8z7dSc1DcOv27V5mYfEAJ6ayfnp8qztpxo/3O8LAd7jrkGUTAbRm02hZ9yKCOmK3Cm5VZXsRiODpIS2bg2JttcK8uZcTsNqQ8QXhTSbeBJY82v3I9SFua/OqagYTE9I86KtXYgdP9qU5yOfPJkX0sa4nD4I6LhFQxv3t4/fciiOz3B8FcxCW79qEfwgq7qQ32ZhtQdvcUpdwTI3H1roXNRrQ27M6y5dSk5M9RP8AZdw4/Yuj/wDa1E4X+z/B21yKtyJn451iNCRTLsrxsXsGl64YIlHJ/eXSfMkQfel7doP/AFQuGRZCsp8+hjrMVocoqjsY4PIrQL2h7CYe5ZRbZa2yTlMk5iTJzGZO550gtdnLeFfKCsnZ2bkNjH2efL5054p22td54VYgCBJA9THX8hUXE+J28RYNy0NVADhtCNZ8MHXrPTNXMydTJZ918OL/ADEdd02R9O9Laa328oUrfA2oTigW6AH1yzlPMHb8BUN+8BA021IMzz9NoHtUNy9TnM8vjU4PZsD4tgDZw93XMr5XU+UDQ+Yqn2hpXrnFeGLcwypO6AH+Egf0mvJ+5Kkq26mD61k6HK8ik5c2ezl9MV+RE5296e8FvkYXEgGDB+oIP00pKV19mptwRZw+I/lP3EitPUK4fqv7Cwv5kfZ84htbUsFyk6jQA6eEmTqdgDRyYA371u3cZLcnKz5YgdSDqTA09qrWFx9y1rbYqdvKrjw/tY1zMLyK8jxeEMZg6jN+HT5jkjpeqg4u1Vl2/wADwGBW1a7lbrf5lx3VWZl2GpIyCRIWI05zVS7b4tL16ybai0M8qg8QVds0mJJI2o3C3sPfP7K41vwgBSS4JkAKVbaTJ02oHFcKJCui22OsgeE6TybSdP3uY0pS3lbYWyXBPxjHYi53YN62/gRRFsA6aRvqdtfIUx4jwVGto5JW+2+ja+En45jQADTrHKl3CGs2LpOLsXAQITcZW3zfxabevpTHGdpsGUzItxHF3MuYtouugnc7a+VBkjJfSg4tPk8zW6BcIbaYimV2zZiZAJAI+cEabddai4/hrTXy2HDsja6iSvkTAoV8G8aIQK1x8MUxlwzBg6gBmB2zEgkHnyiI+dX/ALOcCwt3EPicRcyJbPe5NFEzMRvA6DyiqP2Qwbm+FaRbgltCZjSBAmrk/CrIaBdKkzvC6+5mPyrPkuM+Rkd0E47tcGuMUu3VWYUZGOg0B+MbxPvW6B/wx/s3ARy3rKVt6D7jJsPd0ijbRzMqiklu5rTzgKTdX1rtQ9HPl7H3GmhVX0FVyyue8B1YffTrjV3xj3NKOB6309Z+lBl3mkSHA94+/iWq4x8VO+Ov+0HoaRv8VFk5LhwWPAPoPSjb+IEUjwLkijfSmrgB8gWLeTXKvzrjEGDUOaSOg+tZ8i3HRIsZ2as4gG42ZbpMEqd+QMEb7VBgewFgnLcu3CwBJKFQN9AAVPLz3pv3+kbV1bvEAxz09ulLSaBeLG3dAR7C4Mb3bwPkyH/srodicJoTdvRO2ZP/AAooPW81XbA/DYvQXi+GWLOGy4eQFl8pYtmPM6/agculU3FY3NHzAG0fnVrSqPetw7ZTzIHpRZI3TNWB6VpXg7XEHN4BqdBETJ03O1HYe/cGmcSTqD+OlBYZchBZSR0296cW0RvEBvrXM6zLHGqkn+yaHOQl4jYNt45HUfl7VxgUzuq8idfTc094ktohA8+JwqxvJ/CPwqG0lu1iBbyZS6+BsxMnmCD6b0GF5MvTOa5r9zgZeg05lL/VsbZq887V4RUxBO2ZQY6nY/cKv9xwgliAOpqkdqEe9dR1RjbggNlMMQdYgelc/wD4tTjlfqtzrTknt5K7eUDbzH0NM+ACLV4dV/A0txysCGKkDaSCNY8+dGcIY5X8wBXezb4yYlUyukcqsHZCyWunyBHqDofoSaQOkHWRTrhK3E8YUMvUHXzgjUfrSjybxJHkc4vhltWcMSMuzfCTM/CZM9dOtDcPxVxGhbmfQERrp0OkdOtH4fEK4ggdIaAfmBB9wKKw+CVXBGhgxy8weh1rOnCmpc+BlSu0QYLtVBJIVswI8Y6kHY+HlHpTGwmFugr4kYnwkMFA03IMg/1Hul4xwde8Y2rbZNwDqVHP1E/hUOGwpNtlEyNuo0kb/L0NacnTRWPuY5behMcrc9EkM8Xwd4D23DAiYGhAnKJ0idOR5il7u6mHX5iP9/nXWGbFW0tsQCrrKMrDQTtHIz6U3HH1PgvrERIMGdxv01B56+tI1Si6Y3ndAHC+J5HkCDt0+6mtzHB9TInz/Oh8Zw3DvJtErsd5EExMGY9PTXWoLnCb6oHCk29YJ0mDGk+elXcZEtoJKr+99KylRvHmjfI1lV24l9wZ2nqzdljLk9FJ/Cqhaxa+Y9quHZBgbbuNdQv4n8K6GP6jNPgk4xe8TeS1F2UWbs9AfyoDi2J0uHqY+tNOyCQjv6AffVc5AeIEnFrk3PalNw+KjscfGaW33AbWpPkKPAy4fdMgCimvgBmZoUc/yHOkKcSCzl1P0qFcQztqZ+4D8KkZbEcdxthm7wZoIB2ncjrRKIBQth9IFFWmFEkQlCAatWmlvICulg12ajREyICtFqkNvzrlkpbiEmWLs7grbJnYScxEHbSOX508FlJkKs9YE/OkXAsUq2gCQDJplbxqn7Qp0VsKk9zz/wDtEwBt3hcXRX+/mKqLYx50Yj00+lezcZ4euItm23PVT0NeR8V4Les3ChQ+RA0I6ztWbqcSrU+Dl5VkhJqF0/XsgdnvBUzeMNmQnrzGm3LXyptxiF7m4TDpmIUa7jQSOhrnhuEFsSdWP08hXfFAHtkcxqPWuOv+QUcmiC+Ps6KhmfTaZu2ra9/YSC4WOpJJ66/fU9zvUCkkpDGJgctxPPlRHASqEu/xEQsj4fPyNF4u4LrnMcxOWWJkQNgATA58uZrfJOvj+wHQ4tCcp8sAGBuYhZaWIJiFBjqTA3NK8dwu9a+Jco/XQVaMBw90BC3DlMSoMKfPLET502CuylWaQdDMfWrjh1c7HQ7lcHmV6xKMJXUfX5VrhVo5lBGWfDvpPI6VYOO9mGWWsnMOY3I+W/63quWbrKwzAyKmhx2I5WNmsL/q/WsV3bulQNZHTcf7/KgleTIO9dpeIHnSpR3LUhti+IMLI7s+JyyR+7IiZaYmSK6ezABiPeR6Zh+MUus350GXkduYPLpRiuRqJA5/1qpPYtAmFwZtOCuqyCUPMeRNTYwI7a5kHwjMeZkhdvxqdTM8j+uVd5Mw1AP1oZZHLktRrgXYrhptqIaTmKkTqOhA2ioV4leEK0tHhAG8HU6e1WC2VKwyhoJJjQgbDalOOYJdXwsCRmLbgTqo9Y3O21XGyNg1niQUBSTIrVMjwhm1VZB2MxPnEVlXZWwFy9als3mXRWYA8gSAfUChM0mpZ1rpozk4Yk0dh+L3baFFcqpMxA++JpYG1ruahAs4xzqXb51wbhO5n1oYvXPeUqTLQr7TYorlCkg7yDB+lOuwb3LgvtcJa3btZtdP2h+HUakwDvVZ4hem4ZXNtFXHswDb4fcbQC7dAAHRd/xHtV4/ZcvR3bxl0cgf161KONuPsD5n8q7wp+Vd3MIp2EUKlL2Ro6tdoeqH5/0qdePr+430/OllzCMOU1gtnpRqbAoe2+Mof3h6j8qmGPtn7Q+776r6acqkCk7VXcZdDy1iSfhbSireKI3qtZGG3zphg8x+ImqUmRxLAOKMRoxoHiDNdEPrGx2I9xW7BA5UWsUcoucaYtxSZWLvB7n2bh96h/wm4BqSfrVxt21rm6VG31rN+AxLcLUymf4awqW3gYO2vWrLknlFbTDeU01QiuCUxPhsCTy/CmWHwAG6j50fbwZPlRdrB9PlTo4yOQFZ4YvIAUDxbslbvAn4W69fX86sKW4ohKb24+QNTPHuK8Au4c6qSOo/WtK+88q9yxWFV1hgCDyNUXtB2N3ezrzK8/6/fWfL03mIyOT2UYmNRvRVq/pOs9OtD3sMymGEGo6wuJoTGtq7m1FFpeHPT9RpSO1dIopMVO4mlOAeoYXLhGxPzjSuNDr5Aa6kAbDyqFL/ALiue8qbkOu4HKsrmTWqm5QEjVKrUMrVIGrrGcnDVneVFmrktQshI1you8kgTEmKjcmucL8Y8tflSpulYUVZY7PALAzZr6nN5CQPIzU/E7S2LVizbYsoDPJ55jp7b0t70RyHlufStu+fKRMBVUTv1P1JpeHP3LVUFOGnewrDYrWIo5MRShbdGWm61ojEW2NLb1JkQ70DZaNqn7zzoqoEka0Bymo84Gw+tZn9a0W8hQtIJEq4j+UV3/fD0moLak/7Ubas9YodJdkCM7baUysTGtYg6CirFgnemRj6BbIlBP8AvRmHsTU6YSKLt26csfsW5+ji3hhRSWRWhXeamKKQNmKorop0qMmsz0VA2dnXbfp1rQioy1aZqlFk1cvBqIPWG5UIJeO9n0vAmAG69fX86834xwa5ZaCDH6+devlqEx2EW4uVgCKTlwKf3CjkcTxea0rRsatXaHsuUlk1H3ev51UrilTBrnTxOLpmmM0+CVMRFEren1paTXKuRtStIdjnvD1rVLBjKypRVsOyjpW2AisrK3iiLPrUqtWVlWykCXruprjCasT0rKykZ/oYzH9Qxhid4p9a4Yco9JrKyg6GKdl55NUZ/d43qVE6VlZWvyK8BNrCk0YnDq1WU6ONCnNhCcKmpF4RWqyieOJSkwm3w8Cp0wYrKyooImpk6YSi7VmK3WUdUVZOU0riaysqEN5q1mrKyoQ1mrWasrKhRqawmt1lQiIi1cF6ysqyGu8rnvKysqyiO6Qaq3HuzqvJQAN05H8qysoZwUlTLi2uCh47CNbJB6xQTVlZXJmknRrTtHBrKysoaLP/2Q==

       

    3. Teresina January 9, 2014 at 3:20 pm

      Sorry, I don't know how the above came about – no way to edit it out!

    4. withhope January 11, 2014 at 3:31 pm

      it could simply be that the world loves their own. he's been on GQ and The Advocate (biggest gay mag in the states).

       

      Meanwhile grassroots Catholics are getting on the with the job:

       

      http://www.gofundme.com/64g4ms

    5. withhope January 11, 2014 at 3:46 pm

      oops I meant Esquire – best dressed male of 2013. Quite a feat for someone who's moving amidst the impoverished of shantytowns all day. How does he keep his duds so white?

    6. Werahiko January 11, 2014 at 3:51 pm

      But Withhope – the grassroots Catholics you are supporting bring bulldozers into Churches! See the Fisher Moore website:

      * The original campus was sold to Texas Christian University, whose campus had expanded over the years until it completely surrounded the College.  The University concluded that it would not continue using the Chapel as sacred space.  Therefore, all parties agreed that the chapel building would be razed. Demolition was completed in August of 2013.

       

    7. withhope January 11, 2014 at 4:28 pm

      But itwasn't Catholic,W.

       

      this might help shed some light:

       

      http://sspx.org/en/must-catholics-attend-new-mass

    8. Werahiko January 11, 2014 at 7:07 pm

      Ummm, yes, the chapel was Catholic. Until it was sold and bulldozed with Catholic agreement. Just seeking consistency here. ;)

    9. withhope January 11, 2014 at 7:23 pm

      um no – the Texas Christian U, wasn't Catholic and their buidlings were adjacent to Thomas More Institute, remnamed Fisher More after the two saints.  um, consistency. 

    10. withhope January 11, 2014 at 7:32 pm

      p.s."Built over 100 years ago in the Gothic revival style, the building was dedicated by the Sisters to Our Lady of Victory and educated generations of Fort Worth women until it was closed in the 1980s.  After being sold to a private developer and fully renovated, the 76,000 structure was an apartment building for several years, until it returned to Catholic hands this summer.” 

       

      easy to drop the ball on a saturday afternoon.

    11. Rubyshine January 11, 2014 at 9:53 pm

      I think he has general appeal to the public because he seems approachable and "in touch." At the same time he provides visual images, like the ones Teresina shared, that are easy for the media to share and easy for people to latch onto.

      The image of the new chair that replaced the papal throne, was another image that people could easily connect to and comment on. 

      People/the media may well "turn on him" in the future, but it makes sense to me that they are interested in a pope that seems markedly different to his pre-decessor. I also wonder if they will simply lose interest in him. He may seem interesting and novel, but if the messages continue to be the same on the key issues then I think the public will simply move on, because although he seems, "softer" he does also say things like, "you know what the churches teachings are." in relation to issues like abortion etc.

       

    12. Werahiko January 11, 2014 at 10:02 pm

      Withhope that's their new one. It's the old one they bulldozed. Cut and paste the quote into a search engine and the full story will appear for you.

    13. withhope January 11, 2014 at 10:42 pm

      well,i've never been to texas, but this Fisher More Catholic College seems a mighty fine idea. with this family synod thing an example of how to educate without desecrating young souls is about as important as it gets.

      God bless for back and forth.here's a quote of the day:

       

      'An atheist is a man with no invisible means of support'.

       

      Fulton Sheen

       

       

       

    14. Teresina January 11, 2014 at 11:29 pm

      Remember a few months ago all the hype about Pope Francis ditching the popemobile – highlighting the difference between his austerity and Benedict?  Well, now the hype is all about Pope Francis giving a priest a ride on his popemobile – no mention now about the lack of austerity!

    15. withhope January 12, 2014 at 12:11 am

      he was overheard saying, 'this photo will go around the world', so it may have been theatre.

       

      then i imagine followed by a, nyanyanyanyanyaaah.

    16. paulinem January 13, 2014 at 10:30 am

      Pope Francis is loved as he his lifestyle, preaching and everything about him is as Jesus lived his life over 2,000 years ago. Jesus didnt live in magnificent homes dress in rich clothes and wear pure gold rings ring …His whole life was simple where he related to the community in their everyday lives. He lived as they lived he identified with their problems, he never forced his way, with his teachings etc he just let their minds and eyes become open  to his teachings and this is why they loved him so …no bullying as some today would demand ie believe and act etc what I say or you will be condemned to hell  Christ never once took such sinful attitudes to his people  and never does Francis

      Christ never acted holier than thou, as does Francis he admits hes humans as we all are, Francis admits he is a sinner as we all are, heck we wouldn't need to go to church if we didnt realise this as we would be perfect in every way ( does any human exist whom is perfect :) !!! )

      Francis was right re homesexuals that God loves them as he loves all of us and doesn't condemn them as he doesn't condemn us with our quirky lives and likes and dislikes , but notice Francis never said he approved of Gay marriage etc!

      Francis condemnation of the appalling  greed and selfishness of the  economic system we in this country practise and also most developed and industrials countries indulge in was totally correct in that is preys on the poor and the vulnerable. Where very rich countries like China have no welfare system to care for the sick and injured and vulnerable and thus these later are forced into the streets to beg for survival.

      Francis gives us hope for a better society than what we have today by promoting change and for us catholics for looking at changing the ridiculous middle age celibacy laws. When this happens we will start seeing an influx of seminarians as many men would love to be priests but because they choose a wife and kids cannot. This is sad as many of them have the natural talent and empathy needed to fill this role and be an amazing asset to our church if priesthood was possible. I mean if it was good enough for our first priests ( the apostles  to be married )why   not today.

      Francis in reminding the church faithful ( thats all of us ) of Christ words (to leave our comfort zone ) and go out into the community and bless the people in my name and teach them as I have taught you ( Gospel readings ) but first we all need to be aware as to what Christ teachings are by reading daily the scripture readings that the Church puts out daily http://www.usccb.org/  click daily readings.

      As Christ said I give you this commandment that replaces all other You MUST love they neighbour as I have loved you.  Francis commands the priests nuns etc to leave  your comfortable monasteries/presbytery's  etc and go out and live work etc among the people in this way you will like Christ empathise with the  people and their lives.

       

    17. Lucia Maria January 13, 2014 at 10:57 am

      Hi PaulineM,

      I once read this wonderful article on the power of celibacy for Catholic priests.  Because Catholic priests don't have wives and children, they can go where married men fear to tread such as battlegrounds.  Apparently during wars there are many conversions to Catholicism amoung Anglicans because the married Anglican clergymen don't risk themselves on the battlefield, but Catholic priests do.

      There's too much benefit in priestly celibacy for it to be let go of by the Church, and especially now that we have the Theology of the Body by Blessed JPII where the value of celibacy is explored in great depth as a sign of the Ressurrection and the other world, the world of Heaven.

      See http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2tb74.htm

    18. paulinem January 13, 2014 at 11:15 am

      For some priests  Lucia celibacy is helpful for others it is not, and sadly we have lost many many good priest or potential priest etc . Just like us lay people some choose marriage and thrive and improve as a human especially when children come and test their metal as some say improve as humans as result other.

      While other laypeople choose to be single and yes also make a good life. My own daughter has choose a single life and is now going to work voluntarily  in East Timor with VSA

      Celibacy should always be a choice as it was for years with our church until  the middle ages when for very human and earthly reasons it was changed

      ( the church was losing money re inheritance laws. With the priests  money was being left to the kids and not the church !!)

      I agree with my friend when she says a priest should know and understand the feeling of picking up their own  baby child, at 2am in the morning with a shitty nappy and have to walk the walk while  praying this little darling would please please stop crying and go back to sleep so I can get some sleep !

      What a wonderful way for a priest to learn to empathise with the  parents in your parish. :) Or having a teenager out of control u know throwing a teenage fit ! :)

      Sorry Lucia and your friends you need to and realise and accept most likely in your life time families will be living in our presbyteries as they do in other Christian ministers etc homes. I realise some priests don't want a women etc but some do thus the choice should be there as Christ NEVER said priest nuns etc should be celebrant!

    19. Lucia Maria January 13, 2014 at 11:42 am

      Hi PaulineM,

      Christ did, actually, say that priests should be celibate by His very life (as He never married) and by His teaching.  There's that quote of His where he talks about eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven.  I'll quote from this one article on celibacy, which is worth reading and probably a bit easier to understand that JPII – http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0054.html:

      'At one point, the disciples ask Christ if it is "expedient not to marry?" He replies that "not all can accept this teaching; but those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born so…and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let him accept it who can" (Mt 19:10-12). '

      Then there is this story that the writer gives on why celibacy is imperative for Catholic priests:

      '… a story that I tell my audience. It is about a friend of mine who is now a prominent Catholic moral theologian. Years ago, he was an Episcopalian priest who decided to convert to Catholicism. He was married with children and was given the option of becoming a Catholic priest. He agonized over the decision. He was already an ordained minister (although the Church does not recognize the validity of Episcopalian orders) and was deeply attracted to the Catholic priesthood. But at the same time, he recognized that there must be serious reasons why the Church insists on a discipline that is such a sign of contradiction to the modern world.

      'The debate went on, until finally there came the moment of clarification. He was up all night with one of his children who was seriously ill. Feeling drained and haggard, he went to Mass the next morning, and the priest celebrating Mass came out looking equally drawn. During the brief homily, the priest mentioned in passing that he had been up all night with a parishioner's child who was dying of meningitis. A light bulb went off over my friend's head: You can't do both. If you fully understand the vocations to marriage and to the priesthood — the total availability and self-emptying that each demands — you would not choose to do both. And so he became a lay theologian and, apart from raising a large family, has served the Church in ways that he probably could not have as a member of the clergy.

      'As my bleary-eyed friend discovered at that early morning Mass, the sacraments of Holy Orders and matrimony are too consuming to allow for both. A married priest can't help giving his first thoughts to his wife and children. To the extent he does so, he may be forgoing his priestly role as "father," and people who call a married priest "father" would rightly get the idea that they are second in line as spiritual children. Paul understood this perfectly well when he wrote to the Corinthians, "For he who is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of this world, how he may please his wife; and he is divided" (1 Cor 7:32-34).'

    20. Dominican January 13, 2014 at 11:49 am

      Guess what Pauline, priests grew up infailie

    21. Dominican January 13, 2014 at 12:11 pm

      guess what Pauline priests grew up in families!   they didn't come from outer space. I wholeheartedly support celibacy. What wife could cope with a husband who has had no sleep for 36 hrs because he is chaplain at the very large local hospital – on call 24/7.  There is a gift of celibacy.  It comes with priesthood. As Lucia Maria posted above it enables our priests to be totally available.

      The priests I know are the honoured guest, the friend, the support and good counsel, who sees the stressed mother and quietly organises relief and puts them in touch with other young mothers. He has the spiritual and temporal care of his people first and formost as his priority because he has said yes to God and yes to what  that entails.  I  believe our young men presenting for priesthood know full well the sacrifices being asked of them

    22. Lucia Maria January 13, 2014 at 12:35 pm

      I think it's worth putting Pope Francis' words in context.

      'In a 2012 interview about celibacy, then-Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio noted that in the Eastern churches, priests can be married, and "they are very good priests." He said: "It is a matter of discipline, not of faith. It can change."

      'He stated his support for celibacy in the interview: "I am in favor of maintaining celibacy, with all its pros and cons, because we have ten centuries of good experiences rather than failures," he said. "Tradition has weight and validity."

      From http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-francis-open-optional-celibacy

      Somehow, I doubt that Pope Francis will change the discipline and people should not expect it to change.  The last time everyone thought it would change, a whole lot of innappropriate men entered seminaries with the expectation that they would be able to marry.  This in the late 60's and early 70's, according to one priest that I heard talk about it.  He himself thought he'd be able to marry, and when they all realised that celibacy wouldn't change, most of those men left the seminaries.  That priest that said all this said he nearly did, but he was converted.

    23. paulinem January 13, 2014 at 3:49 pm

      Sorry Lucia the scripture reading quoted had nothing to do with celibacy ..Christ CHOOSE to be celebrant maybe because he knew his time was limited on earth. The apostles  were married men St Peter  our first pope was a married man! 

      Be Careful quoting scripture as to word for word as to  what Jesus meant Lucia as the bible was transcribed over 300 to 400 AFTER Christ ascended into heaven and a great deal was taken by word of mouth ie there were no scribes writing down every word Jesus said. All we know is with scripture today that basically the message given by the teachings is correct but the actual wording we would have no idea…… the church in its training of seminarians puts huge amount of time in the study of scripture and as to what Christ really meant etc.

       

      As I said it should be a  choice there are many men of God and indeed women also of God  ( ordained people dedicated to spreading the message )whom have chosen marriage and  have grown as humans as result.

      As Francis said the eastern churches and as we know the christian churches of Anglicans Presbyterians etc etc have all allowed marriages and have been successful . I suggest we as a church can learn from them how they ensure no scandal etc ie divorce etc causes them grief etc. By the way did you know anglican ministers in recent times ( I think in England )whom were married and converted to become catholic priests were granted  the right to bring their wives and become ordained  priests. So it has already happened! :)

      Re Priests busy lives this is not 1960s its 2014 and most priest do not have very busy lives at  all  defintely not as much as many married men. They seldom to never make house calls now especially after hours. In fact in my neighbourhood one of our priests has  part time work in a bottle liquor store as well as been a parish priest. Now in 2014 times have changed and priests been human are different some work by desire long hours some dont and never do private visiting of parishioners.

      I strongly suspect they don't want to be married brigade of priests are more driven by becoming set in their own ways bachelors and have made a self only own lives and the thought of a sharing it with a women horrifies them ..heck she might start bossing them etc to get of the lazy boy and do the dishes, dig the garden put the kids to bed take junior to rugby practise etc etc  :)

      Okay back to point I made I believe  the choice should be there  to marry or not marry as I believe Christ intended.

      When I asked a priest why not he said money Pauline money  …the catholic schools are draining our economic resources ..if married priest were allowed we would have to pay them a married stipend ! Well my answer to that is we need good priests far more than we need catholic education as I don't see  these days much good dividend to the church coming from the output of our schools!

       

      Re quote success of celibracy  fro church in time period when celibacy introduced this could be argued both ways and lets face it the social attitudes values and above all the education level of the ordinary person in these times was different to the social values attitudes of 2014.

    24. beyblade January 13, 2014 at 9:26 pm

      just a couple of pointers PaulineM – I do like your passion – but you're really on the wrong track in describing the Bible as written 300-400 years after Jesus died. Off the top of my head in the New Testament, of the four Gospels one was written around 75 years after and the others around 100 – 120 years after. You cannot dismiss Oral Tradition as simply word of mouth as that was how they learned the stories back then – and another wee twist in your story ( I know the parish you describe) the Priest you describe as working part time in a liquor store is in fact one who had problems in his ministry and took time off his ministry ( is it called sick leave?)and got the job at the liquor store before resuming part-time again as a Priest – and lucky we are that he did.

    25. Rubyshine January 13, 2014 at 9:34 pm

      paulinem I'm in two minds on the celibacy thing, but I take exception to the idea that our priests are not terribly busy. I'm sure like most "jobs" priests can do the bare minimum or they can really go the extra mile, but in general, they seem pretty busy to me.

    26. paulinem January 14, 2014 at 10:06 am

      Beyblade it is a historical fact that monks transcribed the teachings of Christ into the written form approx 300 to 400 years after  the ascension. First I understand  either in Latin or Greek or maybe Arabic. then  years and years later in English. Yes there was SOME written form written down as you said about 70yrs later possibly even earlier as there was letters written to the disciples by the apostles as to what Christ meant etc etc.

      As we know put three people together in a separate room as ask them individually to describe what a speaker was talking about you will get three different versions. In any training by the church on scripture you are told clearly that never take word for word what's in the teachings via the bible and it always to take the attitude of what is Christ trying to say here whats his message. This is why those that do  study and transcibe the teachings for us are expected to put so much years of study into the teachings of Christ

      This is why seminarians etc. are given considerable training in scripture as to what Christ was teaching. It why so much money staff etc is put into Religious education just to ensure the wrong meaning of what Christ is teaching is not misinterpreted. It what makes the Catholic church unique among many of the especially the recently formed christian churches. Fools rush in as the saying goes while the wise and learned take time and analyze the message correctly. 

      Priests are not automatic saints on a plateau above the rest of us, they are as human as we all are and yes as we know some are lazy and do the bare minimum and while  others as we both know ( in the area we live in :) )put in long hard hours.

      In this society we all live in there is only ONE perfect human that Jesus Christ himself. As much as I love Blessed Mother as my best female friend she showed her human imperfection re the finding Jesus in the temple, and this is the reason I love her even more as I can identify with her in my life.

      Rubyshine I agree priesthood is like all positions etc etc in life some are lazy and do the minimum while others as you say put the hard yards in ! I guess like all marriages some work because those involved  are non-selfish and care enough to want it to work. Most marriages face the reality becasue of the demands of life as it is often marriages are often 70%/30% give or take. But can evolve to become the other way over the years of married life  where its more 30%/70% give or take.  

    27. John Whyte January 14, 2014 at 10:20 am

      Pauline,  

      But Mary was completely without sin.  The Catholic Encylopedia says "Mary's complete exemption from actual sin is confirmed by the Council of Trent (Session VI, Canon 23): "If any one say that man once justified can during his whole life avoid all sins, even venial ones, as theChurch holds that the Blessed Virgin did by special privilege of God, let him be anathema." Theologians assert that Mary was impeccable, not by the essential perfection of her nature, but by a special Divine privilege."  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

      She's concieved without the stain of orignal sin, and never sinned, so I'm not sure what you mean by less than perfect.

    28. paulinem January 14, 2014 at 11:11 am

      John Mary was/is a very very special person,  your reply is  why its very easy to misinterpret the teachings of Christ.  Take the finding in the temple, like all normal Mums she was out of her mind with worry, especially  when neither Joseph of he could find him after looking for him for three days in a crime infested land.  Then suddenly  she finds her darling son  doing Gods work.

      We don't know exactly what was said by either her of Joseph  to Jesus when they found him. The mind boggles thinking as a another human parent how would I react if my child just conveniently forgot to tell anyone he was staying behind  to listen  to speakers etc and not join the rest of the travling party  you were with!! Her reaction was a normal parents reaction in the circumstances and this why she is loved  so much as with Mary identifys herself as a normal  human of human  lineage, like we are all.

      As the priest told us if she was a god like person  she would have said nothing  to Jesus in finding him for if she was a god  she would know  that despite her beloved son  disappearing for three days in  crime infested environment and none of their friends etc had seen him he would be fine etc …

      But no Mary was born human and acted like a normal human when  discovering her son after three days. Mary is loved so much as we were infallible  humans can  readily identify with her in our daily lives and thus feel great peace with her in friendship. Especially  we can identify with her understandable  concern  and reaction, when Jesus disappeared for three days in a crime infested land  and none of their relatives etc had seen him.

      Christ gave us Mary as a human  mother  so that we mere mortals know we can  turn pray and look to Mary  for her motherly help and guidance,  when  we are simerly  tested in our daily lives. Mary wants us to see her as a human mother  so we can  then be drawn to her as our heavenly mother and thus can  always no matter what no matter where turn to her  for help in times of trouble etc.

    29. Don the Kiwi January 14, 2014 at 12:12 pm

      Paulinem.

      The gospels were NOT  written 300 – 400 years after the Ascension.  Matthew's gospel – Matthew was an apostle was written possibly as early as 45 AD – the Ascension took place about 33 AD, so Matthew wrote his gospel probably within 20 years of Christ 's ascension. He wrote his gospel in Hebrew.  Mark was a companion of St. Peter, and wrote his gospel probably shortly after Peter was crucified – around 70 AD.  Luke was an companion of St. Paul, and was the only non-jew to write the gospel. He wrote his gospel probaby around 80 AD. Paul wrote his letters from around 45 AD – a few years after his conversion, till his death in – I think – 65 AD.

      John wrote his gospel around 95 AD, and the Apocalypse a few years later prior to his death. Where you are being confused, is that the Church, in putting the  Bible together, took about 400 years to finalise it, because there were so many other writings after the ascension of Jesus and the death of all the apostles, that the Church had to sort out which were correct, and measured up to the CANON .

      Mary did no sin – she was "Full of Grace" and at no time would she have acted in the way you say. The gospels give us what she and Joseph said when they found Him, and His reply.

      You do seem to have so many erroneous understanding of our Faith – I hope you accept the brotherly and sisterly correction you gain from those who try to correct your mistakes on this blog. 

    30. Lucia Maria January 14, 2014 at 12:38 pm

      The previous active thread, Wonderful Intolerance ! has now automatically closed off comments.  I have emailed the administrators.

    31. Rubyshine January 14, 2014 at 1:57 pm

      Oh is that what happens to threads. Lucia Maria, you posted on another thread awhile ago about knowing some people in Hamilton, and I'd wanted to say thank you. I'm not quite there yet, but I appreciated the offer none the less and I will keep the offer in mind, but couldn't comment on the thread any longer.

    32. withhope January 14, 2014 at 3:19 pm

      in continuation of 'wonderful intolerance' comments, with regards to Archbishop Lefebvre, one person lamented to a priest (not an sspx priest) that the Church is in such a state we need a St Athanasius. The priest replied, we had one, Archbishop Lefebvre. It is said that JPII wanted to consecrate the SSPX bishops, but there were forces at play that prevented him. Things went the way of things that go the way of certain things after that.

    33. withhope January 14, 2014 at 3:33 pm

      why did you, LM, feel the need to email the administrators? to be 'frank' means:

       

      expressing true opinion: open, honest, and sometimes forceful in expressing true feelings and opinions

      showing openness and bluntness: allowing people's true feelings and opinions to be openly and often bluntly stated.

       

       

       

      one for the suggestion box. a new name for the blog, 'when he/she 'Lucia Maria' wants your opinion,  he/she 'Lucia Maria' will give it to you.'

    34. paulinem January 14, 2014 at 3:41 pm

      Don nothing I wrote was wrong or insulting to Blessed Mother, while she was on earth she was a human being not a God figure. It was perfectly natural and NOT sinful  for her to be upset at Jesus starting his ministry before his time,  ( finding in the temple )and forgetting to inform her what he was doing. I have no doubt the finding in the temple was related to God wanting us to identify with his mother's anguish.

      I strongly suggest you pray to discover Marys wonder grace and understanding of our lives and our problems. Why because she also lived a very challenging life like most of us do. I have no doubt God arranged this also for  Mary  so she can understand and relate to us in our lives  and thus help her to loves us so totally as our heavenly  Mother.

      I think its you here that needs to be corrected as your reply was quite arrogant and quite frankly wrong. Blessed Mother took on her special powers she has today AFTER she was assumed into heaven not before !

      Yes I accept the gospels were written in the time period you say BUT were not made available universally to the wider world until the time period I suggested, and as they were written in greek arabic etc by Matthew Mark Luke and John.For this reason in with the  translation by the monks it is strongly suggested NOT to take word for word as to what the meaning is.. The church trains those  chosen to transcribe Christs message by explaining  the gospels etc for a long period of time. This is to ensure  that the wrong and false conclusions are not made  as to what who why etc Christ is trying  to suggest to us in his teachings.

      To be a true committed Catholic, ( Don)  you to realise that the journey in our faith is one of constant learning, constant challenging and above all constantly changing ourselves in our daily lives by studying   the teaching of the gospels and read the various reflections available ( online ie Marist messenger word for the day etc etc )  for the daily teachings as to  what Christ wants of us in our daily lives

       

    35. Lucia Maria January 14, 2014 at 4:10 pm

      Withhope,

      I thought my first comment was clear, so let me be even clearer.

      When I said, "The previous active thread, Wonderful Intolerance ! has now automatically closed off comments", I meant that it is no longer possible to comment in that thread because the comments are closed.

      That is why I emailed the administrator(s), so that they might consider re-opening the comments again.

      Go and try to leave a comment and you will see what I mean, if you still can't understand.

      I've been slowly figuring out why I'm not making any headway with talking to you – this would explain it.  You don't seem to understand half of what I say.

    36. Lucia Maria January 14, 2014 at 4:13 pm

      Rubyshine,

      You're welcome! 

      It is frustrating that there is what looks to be a close off of the comments after a week.  Not all blogs operate that way, so it would be easy to turn off, if the admin(s) wanted to.

    37. withhope January 14, 2014 at 4:22 pm

      Don said:

       

      'Mary did no sin – she was "Full of Grace" and at no time would she have acted in the way you say."

      This is what the Church has always understood. As far as I know only protestants, libcats and this Pope have questioned Her sinlessness.

      "the Protevangelium of James, a second-century biography of Mary in her youth, from her own miraculous conception until the birth of her son Jesus. Other important precursors also exist in the ancient traditions of Mary's Dormition and Assumption, narratives of the end of her life first composed during the third and fourth centuries, it would appear, if not perhaps even slightly earlier. These works, together with the canonical gospels, form the basic underlying narrative structure for this earliest Life of the Virgin."

      Shoemaker, Stephen J. "The Life of the Virgin: Maximus the Confessor."

    38. withhope January 14, 2014 at 4:31 pm

      Lucia, why are you so angry? "The previous active thread, Wonderful Intolerance ! has now automatically closed off comments.  I have emailed the administrators". what could this mean? It could mean what you've now qualified or it could mean what I, mistakenly took it to mean. Sorry Lucia – a phrase I've seen here and there in people's comments. Are you the only one who gets everything right? My mistake.

       

      "I've been slowly figuring out why I'm not making any headway with talking to you – this would explain it.  You don't seem to understand half of what I say." You don't need to make 'headway' with me…wow.

      again: one for the suggestion box. a new name for the blog, 'when he/she 'Lucia Maria' wants your opinion,  he/she 'Lucia Maria' will give it to you.'

       

       

       

    39. Benedicta January 14, 2014 at 4:34 pm

      Paulinem

      Are you saying that we can only work out the meaning from scripture and that the words themselves are not to be relied on they have been transcribed over and over. That the languages written in are obscure and so translation of the actual words is problematic and so we have to 'think beyond the word' to find the meaning?

       

    40. withhope January 14, 2014 at 4:37 pm

      p.s. LM, so far you've accused me of 'following you around' on other blogs, that I'm too thick to understand you, and you've given yourself the presumption of making 'headway' – I'm a bit thick today, you'll have explain exactly what you mean by that. And still, it appears you're above apologies yourself. 

    41. Benedicta January 14, 2014 at 4:46 pm

      Paulinem

      I agree Mary is not Divine not a god…I don't know why you would think someone Catholic would think this?

      But on the other hand you can't simply reduce Mary to be someone just like one of us. For one thing she is the God-Bearer and in that sense bears a special relationship to God she is unreservedly His. At the same time Mary is prior to the Church but all that the Church is by Grace is concentrated in her….hers is a motherhood of the word.

      Lumen Gentium 53,56 tell us that Mary was redeemed in a more exalted manner than any other human creature.

      Catholic teaching is this that we are saved through Christ and His Church. That Mary is the Icon of the Church means that she has a special role in our salvation.

      Aidan Nichols says it well here….'Had Mary been an ordinary lass, the incarnation would still have been possible, but it would have been reduced to the level of a means or tool – a stage on the way to Calvary, with Mary just an instrument, to be cast aside one the need was passed……(and I love this next phrase….)…'The annunciation is the Pentecost of the Virgin'.

      I think in so far as we obscure the unique role and humanity of Mary we lose the fullness of meaning as regards the Person of Christ Incarnate. Also in so far as we obscure Mary we lose sight of the role of the feminine in the order of Redemption. We need Mary to help us know who Christ is and what the Church is and who we are as men and women within it.

       

    42. paulinem January 14, 2014 at 4:46 pm

      Withhope as I said to be a true catholic it means to be prepared to  learn  daily to be constantly challenged to   change   etc your views of life  etc via listening in and taking on board  the  teachings of the daily scripture readings especially the Gospels.

      What it doesnt mean to hold on to  (can only be described as satanic) prejudices such as this you quoted below!

      "As far as I know only protestants, libcats and this Pope have questioned Her sinlessness. "

      Not very christian Withhope and definitely not how a commited Catholic  should say suggest etc about other christians!!

    43. withhope January 14, 2014 at 4:56 pm

      paulinem, but protestants, libcats and so far this Pope do and have called into question her sinlessness.

       

       

    44. withhope January 14, 2014 at 4:57 pm

      p.s. I won't hold being called a satanic uncommitted Catholic against you. God bless. 

    45. paulinem January 14, 2014 at 4:58 pm

      Benidicta I am saying with quoting scripture to transcribed a meaning you have decided it means …you need to be very careful. Scripture  throughout history has regular been abused and misinterpreted as to what Christ is really saying. The reality as Scripture has been transcribed over the many years from time to modern language, so   yes the wrong meaning can be taking what Christ actually saying to us all.

         The church puts a lot of effort to trains its teachers  for quite some length with  scripture just to ensure there is no wrong translation of Christ message to us. Thats why when you read scripture  daily via http://www.usccb.com I strongly suggest you go to these sites to understand the message  Christ is saying  to you

      http://www.maristmessenger.co.nz/category/daily-reflections/ orhttp://gnm.org/index.html

    46. paulinem January 14, 2014 at 5:05 pm

      Benedicta I said after Mary was assumed into heaven yes she became heavenly etc etc ..but while on earth Mary lived a very normal life and would have been daily challenged a great deal as to  what etc to do …this is what makes Mary so very special as she understand us and our challenges and weakness as she was born also from humans herself. This is why Mary's such a friend to so very  many as ordinary people feel they identify with her they can come without fear  crying etc seeking  help etc as she understands their problems etc.

    47. Lucia Maria January 14, 2014 at 5:12 pm

      Withhope,

      If you didn't understand why I emailed the admins, you could have just asked me.  Instead I get the assumption about what it might have been about from the rest of your comment, and then this, "again: one for the suggestion box. a new name for the blog, 'when he/she 'Lucia Maria' wants your opinion,  he/she 'Lucia Maria' will give it to you.'"

      With regards to the other day, I made a comment about what I experience on other blogs – not this one – and then when you called my experience hyperbole, I asked you if you followed me around.  It wasn't an accusation, I wanted to understand if you were at a number of the major political blogs I frequently comment at and had a different view of what occured there.   How else would you be able to call it hyberbole, unless you actually went to all those other blogs and followed all my comment and all the comments directed towards me?  However, you admitted you had never seen me comment anywhere but here, so your "hyperbole" comment is either assumed and/or you misunderstood what I said.

      I hope that clarifies things.

    48. Lucia Maria January 14, 2014 at 5:13 pm

      My apologies to everyone else for dragging this argument into this thread where it doesn't belong.

    49. withhope January 14, 2014 at 5:21 pm

      p.s.s I can see that my p.s. might sound inauthentic, but really, God bless, because it amused me. 

       

      It is my understanding that Truth and Charity should not live separate lives. But, in my opinion based on the opinions of people who, I believe and others, know what they're talking about, we have new concept of charity that is furthering itself from Truth as the years pass. To adominish sin is uncharitable, hence why Catholics want to make peace with the world, rather than be at peace with God. 

       

      John 5: 41I do not receive glory from men. 42But I know that you have not the love of God within you. 43I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

       

       

    50. withhope January 14, 2014 at 5:24 pm

      LM, I was directing my post to the hyperbolic comments. I try not to get personal, and look at the text and respond.

       

      I'm a goobah, I know that, but it did rather take me aback the following around thing. pax. God bless. 

       

      mea culpa for my snide new name for the blog.

    51. withhope January 14, 2014 at 5:32 pm

      p.s. LM, wouldn't want to be in your shoes dealing with the 'charity' of the public, so, I can understand why you might have thought one of satan's little helpers might have followed you here.

    52. withhope January 14, 2014 at 5:37 pm

      see guys, we admonish each other and get on with it. anyone else got the warm fuzzies? God bless.

    53. Teresina January 14, 2014 at 9:35 pm

      Withhope, out of interest, what has Francis said about Our Lady not being sinless – if he has said such a thing it would be a denial of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.  Can you point me to what he said?