The Romney Horror Obama Show

This is a fascinating video breakdown, summarizing the state-by-state voting stats as America heads for its Presidential Election:

Watch it, and you’ll see that Romney has a lot of hard work to do to win the election. Obama seems to already have in his pockets the largest states with the greatest number of Electoral College votes (and these are what count).
Some great graphics in this video show which States will swing the Election if they are won.
Let us pray that Obama and his evil baby murdering policies do not win the day.
Let us pray that Romney, who is not perfect, but at least is not pushing this intrinsic evil, will take this one out. 
The Catholic vote is actually going to be very important in this Election.
Let us pray that Catholics will not betray Christ and give Obama another chance of pushing his infant holocaust further. 
If Obama wins, and a majority of Catholics vote for him in this Election, then the Bishops there have utterly failed as pastors and teachers. Moreover, they will have themselves to blame for not making it crystal clear as to which platform promotes intrinsic evil and which doesn’t.
Here is the latest update; it seems as though Romney is making something of a comeback in the swing states:

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    Comments: 50

    1. Teresina October 23, 2012 at 5:41 pm

      Thanks for the post, Marty. I have been following the US elections and it is quite an amazing come back for Mitt Romney, who was trailing in all of the polls until the first Presidential debate when there has been quite a turn around. The Gallup poll (regarded by commentators as the most reliable in past years, although apparently they have got it wrong on two or three occasions) has had Mitt Romney ahead by 7 points (now down to 6) while most of the other polls have had Obama ahead. The Rasmussen poll (which is more Republican leaning) has 49% to Romney and 48% to Obama, but the other polls show the gap has closed between them and many have them neck and neck, so it is obviously Romney who is on an upswing. As you say, it all comes down to the Electoral College but I have taken heart from what commentators have said about the Gallup poll being the most reliable predictor of election outcomes of all the polls. However, commentators are confused by the much wider margin of the Gallup poll and have indicated that Romney’s lead would drop after the second presidential debate was factored in, as Obama is said to have won that debate. However today the latest Gallup poll, factoring that debate in, shows that Romney is maintaining the lead although one point down.

      As you say we must pray that the Catholic vote will swing in behind Romney, the better of the two candidates on moral grounds and he also has a very good running mate in Ryan.

      I wouldn’t like to take a bet on the outcome!

      The Latest Polling Data From Real Clear Politics

      Obama Romney Spread

      Real Clear Politics Average

      10/7010/19 47.1% 47.0% Obama +0.1

      Rasmussen Presidential Daily Tracking Poll

      10/17-10/19 (1,500, margin of error = 3.0) 48% 49% Romney +1

      Gallup Tracking

      10/13-10/19 (2,700, margin of error = 2.0) 45% 51% Romney +6

      IBD/TIPP Tracking

      10/14-10/19 (938, margin of error = 3.5) 47% 44% Obama +3

      Hartford Courant/UConn

      10/11-10/16 (1023, margin of error =3.0) 48% 45% Obama +3

      ABC News/Wash Post

      10/10-10/13 (923, margin of error = 3.5) 49% 46% Obama +3


      10/7-10/11 (1000, margin of error =3.1) 49% 48% Obama +1


      10/8-10/10 (1360, margin of error =2.7) 46% 47% Romney +1

      Fox News

      10/7-10/9 (1109, margin of error =3.0) 45% 46% Romney +1

    2. Werahiko October 23, 2012 at 7:19 pm

      Obama is not ‘pushing this intrinsic evil [, abortion.]. He seeks to minimise the number of abortions. He does not seek to do so in line with Catholic teaching, which supports the criminalization of all abortions, not as a means to the end of fewer abortions, but as an end in itself. Romney does not uphold this teaching either. One reason i believe for the almost complete ineffectiveness of the pro-life movement (think Spain, Ireland in recent years) is the extreme legal positions put forward, and the exaggeration of pro-choice people’s positions. This post is a good example. It will get positive responses from others with similar extreme (I mean this literally, not critically) views, but cannot enlist support from the middle ground. I say: respect your opponent, and come to terms.

    3. paulinem October 23, 2012 at 8:21 pm

      Marty how many babies has Obama actually KILLED .. you know who HE is personally responsible for !! The US people also vote for a Congress and a Senate ..ahhh what about their responsibility for abortion policies !!!

      We in NZ kill approx 18,000 unborn every year … do you get carried away about NZ politicians whom have a DONT want to KNOW attitude to these stats … ahh by the way Marty ALL NZ PARTIES in parliament are guilty at this attitude!

      Christ said what you do to the least of mine you do to ME … Romney has made it very clear he doesn’t give a stuff about the least of mine ..

      This same lunatic Romney would bring the globe into another WW3 ..ahh how many deaths would this kill !! Or is it only the unborn you are concerned about ! He made it clear in this debate he would support Israel no matter what she did, recently apparently either a Israels politicians or military personal skited they have the weaponry to dominate the world !!

      What about the children in US whom parents are forced to live on only $2 per day per child …Romney has made it clear he will even cut this payout !! to assure his rich friends get a tax cut ! ahh the least of mine Marty !!

      I genuinely hope Obarma is returned I seriously am concerned at the lunatic you support gets in ..GOD help US and GOD help the Globe

    4. Teresina October 23, 2012 at 9:42 pm

      Werahiko and Paulinem, I take it from your comments that neither of you are Catholic.

    5. Helens Bay October 23, 2012 at 11:59 pm

      Teresina &Marty
      I take it from your comments that you are Mormons

    6. Lucia Maria October 24, 2012 at 11:58 am

      Whatever the results of this election, it will have consequences for the whole world.

      Romney does seem to be more keen to go to war than Obama, but then that may just be my impression from the media and not grounded in fact.

      Ultimately though, as Paulinem points out, “what you do to the least of mine you do to ME”, Romney looks to want to turn back the tide on the wholesale murder of the least (the unborn) and by doing so will bring down the favour of God (in my opinion) and therefore make war less likely (as war is divine punishment).

      What about the children in US whom parents are forced to live on only $2 per day per child …Romney has made it clear he will even cut this payout !! to assure his rich friends get a tax cut ! ahh the least of mine Marty !!

      This is where I think a number of good Catholics get confused. It’s far worse (on an order of magnitude) to kill a child before they are born, than to make living difficult for those who have the good fortune not be killed by their mothers. Man does not live by bread alone.

    7. Don the Kiwi October 24, 2012 at 12:13 pm


      Obama is not ‘pushing this intrinsic evil [, abortion.]. He seeks to minimise the number of abortions

      Actually, he is pushing abortion. Seeking to minimise abortions was, in essence, a lie. Obama is the most pro-abortion president the USA has ever had. Under the Bush presidency, abortion procedures funded by the USA for outside of the USA had the funding stopped. One of the first things Obama did when he came to office was to start funding again. He promotes the funding of Planned Parenthood – the biuggest abortion provider in the USA. Many states have de-funded Planned Parenthood, but Obama is taking legal action to force them to continue funding abortion. Abortion is at ther forefront of Obama’s, and the Democratice party’s platform.


      I don’t quite know where to start with your almost hysterical shill for Obama, and attack on Romney. Omaba’s policy toward Israel is exactly the same as Romney’s – did you watch the 3rd debate on Foreign Affairs? Obama supports Israel in the very same way – Romney would continue the same policy.

      What about the children in US whom parents are forced to live on only $2 per day per child…..

      What a load of rubbish -where on earth did you get that from? The fact is that the USA under Obama is heading for bankruptcy – another four years of Obama policies would see the USA in the same position as Greece, Portugal etc, and so severely weakened that the poor – and everyone in the USA would suffer more than they are now. Under Obama, there are 15 million less jobs in the US – 30+ million people unemployed, 47 million people on food stamps, average income is down by $4500 per year. The cost of Obama’s medical scheme is such that many employers could not afford to pay it, and would go bankrupt. Obama has been, and would continue to be a trajedy for the USA, with his socialist – almost communist policies.
      If he is re-elected, America would cease to be the leader of the free world, and Radical Islam would become much more rampant than it is now.
      God bless America, and throw Obama out.

    8. JimmyG October 24, 2012 at 12:34 pm


      “This same lunatic Romney would bring the globe into another WW3″

      Says who? You? Are you on drugs? Romney is trying to stop America going bankrupt. If they go bankrupt, the “least of these” will be worse off. They don’t have money to keep doling out. I think that many NZ politicians are a joke. Just as bad as many other death-dealers around the world.

      But there is a difference: Obama is promoting and pushing abortion on demand, and trying to sell it overseas into African countries and others. He is exporting his death-services to other poor nations, and bribes them into it, by making them accept his policies, if they want foreign aid.

      Helensbay, are you one of the nz bishops by any chance?

    9. Helens Bay October 24, 2012 at 12:37 pm

      How shallow your morals when the same policies are carried out here in NZ,yet your silence on Key and his cronies is deafening.
      Maybe you have caught his memory loss as well
      God save NZ from hypocrites

    10. Don the Kiwi October 24, 2012 at 12:42 pm

      Helens Bay.

      How can you judge me or my moral stance on anything? Because I disagree with Obama, how does that translate into my opinion of John Key?

      Look at yourself, Helens Bay – take the plank from your own eye – then maybe you can help me get the speck out of mine.

    11. Valerie October 24, 2012 at 1:57 pm

      Mrs Bay,

      Your silence on anything moral is deafening.

      Obama is very bad.
      Do you agree?
      Key is a muppet?
      Do you agree?

      Time to climb off the fence Mrs Bay.


    12. Valerie October 24, 2012 at 2:09 pm

      Thanks for the videos Mr Rethul.

      I second Mrs Teresina’s question.
      Mr Werahiko, are you Catholic?

      “Respect your opponent, and come to terms”?
      What happens when your opponent is Hitler-esque?


    13. paulinem October 24, 2012 at 4:33 pm

      Terisina I have been a catholic as has my family possibly longer than you or yours .. I believe you owe me an apology please !!

      Bush yes interesting him declaring he was pro life .. very interesting when you consider he and his cronies invaded Iraq illegally to destroy weapons of mass destructions … AHH how many WMD were found !!!! How many Iraqis and Afghanistan people were killed from this invasion many lives were totally destroyed … Bushes support for Israel illegal invasion of Gaza and support for them bombing a school in Gaza … YES the kids were in the school … ahh Bush gave full support for the blockade of Gaza by Israel did you know many Gaza Palestine children had to look in rubbish tins for food they were so desperate etc YES he sure was a good man a very very PRO life man Bush !!!! [edited – bordering on the blasphemous]

      Don the Kiwi why have you a problem with providing free health care .NZ has had this since well before I was born … do you object to the fact that any NZer can get free health care if needed ie free hospital care … we pay it by our taxes ..US pays it by insurances ..but yes I see where you are coming any support to the least of mine is evil especially for the sick and needy… Don what would Jesus have done given to the rich in tax cuts or assisted the poor!!

      Yes US has problems with its monetary problems too many rich P..Ks manipulating the economy and the US government policy to make them selves very very rich.They want Romney in power is as he promises to make them even richer … My opinon the system needs to change back to Roosevelt Keynesian economy !!

      Abortion re Obama ..give me a break when I was proactive in the 90s for the pro life movement ..US had abortion on demand THEN as they had NINE month abortions them ..NOTHING has changed no matter what [edited, not adhering to comments policy] you listen to since then then…I assure you all the so called crimes you accuse Obama of was in full practice back then ..Bush stopping funding was only a sop for his voters ie getting reelected !! I REPEAT the president is only ONE politician there is a congress and a senate who make the decisions re abortion!!!!

      Foreign policy on this debate … Ahh Romney said I will make sanctions it tougher on Iran ..ahh what has Iran done to deserve this nasty treatment ..

      Nuclear ..ahh who else has nuclear weapons US Israel Pakistan Great Britain France … Russia etc
      Did you know the US lead sanctions pre Iraq war cost according to UNESCO the lives of over half a MILLION children in Iraq !! What harm are these present sanctions causing people in Iran and Romney wants to make it worse ???

    14. Teresina October 24, 2012 at 4:53 pm

      Totally agree with your comments, Valerie. Helens Bay, the reason I questioned whether Werahiko and Paulinem are Catholic is because every Catholic knows the Church’s teachings on abortion and other moral issues. Therefore, any Catholic would not be pushing for a pro-abortion politician such as Obama. I ask the same question of you, Helens Bay: are you a Catholic? If you are then you should know better and not be barracking for a man like Obama who is funding the evil of abortion. And good on those Mormons who are against the evil of abortion. I wonder whose soul stands the better chance of attaining heaven: the Mormon who is against abortion or a “Catholic” who supports abortion or at least turns a blind eye to it by promoting those politians who do? Anyone who knows their 10 Commandments, which I’m sure the Mormons do, will be able to give you the answer. So if you don’t know the answer perhaps you should ask.

      As Marty has said Romney is the better of the two politicians and we are talking about the American elections, so how does John Key (who leaves a lot to be desired) come into it?

      And as regards war – how trustworthy is Obama going to be this term if he gets re-elected? For anyone who has forgotten or doesn’t know – in March this year he got caught out on mic talking to the Russians, which has raised fears that if he is elected he will cave in to Russian demands in respect of the US missile defence system:

      “SEOUL, South Korea — At the tail end of his 90 minute meeting with Russian President Dmitri Medvedev Monday, President Obama said that he would have “more flexibility” to deal with controversial issues such as missile defense, but incoming Russian President Vladimir Putin needs to give him “space.”

      The exchange was picked up by microphones as reporters were let into the room for remarks by the two leaders.

      The exchange:

      President Obama: On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space.

      President Medvedev: Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…

      President Obama: This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.

      President Medvedev: I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir.”

      How trustworthy is that …?

    15. Valerie October 24, 2012 at 5:04 pm

      Mrs Pauline,

      You’re right about US foreign policy.
      They’re nutters who love to rule the world.

      They have caused the deaths of thousands in Iraq.
      And many other countries.
      By their incursions and secret ops, they have murdered many.
      The Yanks are some of the biggest hypocrites when it comes to freedom and equality.

      But you’re in a dream world if you think Obama isn’t part of that.
      Romney, I’m not a fan.
      I think he’ll be just the same, just like Obama has been like Bush.
      When it comes to drone attacks, Obama is worse than Bush.
      Killing women and children with the push of a button.
      Romney, Bush, Obama, they’re all the same when it comes to foreign policy.
      Obama has killed more people with drone missiles than Bush ever did.
      And we all agree that Bush was a war-nutter.
      Obama is ok with assassination of people without evidence.
      He used capital punishment on Osama Bin Laden.
      How is he for the “least of these my brethren”??

      Obama is trying to give health care for the everybody.
      But they have no money to fund that.
      So he’s going to drive the country into further debt.
      They’re already 16 trillion in debt.
      They have no money to pay for the health care.
      Also, the health care includes increased abortion, increased contraception.

      How, as a Catholic, who should value human life, “the least of these my brethren”, can you accept that?

      The least of the my brethren includes those in the womb.

      We want care for the poor. Yes,
      But who’s going to pay or it? You?

      Obama should be trying to stop abortion, just like he is trying to make health care for all. He’s just one politician, but he should be trying to reduce it, not promote it, just like he is trying to make health care for all.

      Obama loves abortion.
      He thinks it’s a great solution.
      He’s for abortion.
      He’s for the murder of babies when they get in the way of life.
      He’s for having abortion as a solution for all women, if they want it.
      He wants women to be able to murder their children if they want that.
      Mr Rethul wrote about this a while back:

      The great Obama!!

      Mrs Pauline, I understand if you don’t like Romney, but how can you like Obama?


    16. Teresina October 24, 2012 at 5:14 pm

      Paulinem, I don’t apologise to anyone who pushes for pro-abortion politicians. And belonging to a golf club doesn’t necessarily make you a golfer – there are many “Catholics” in name only who do not follow the Church’s teachings and I don’t consider them Catholics. And if you were in the prolife movement in the 90s (which I was active in in the 80s) then you will know that the prolife movement advocates voting for the politician who is the most against abortion. The prolive movement in America is anti-Obama because of his record on abortion.

      As regards war, there is ample evidence that nothing has changed under Obama:

      “Compare Mr. Obama’s use of drone strikes with that of his predecessor. During the Bush administration, there was an American drone attack in Pakistan every 43 days; during the first two years of the Obama administration, there was a drone strike there every four days.[43]

      —Peter Bergen, April 2012

    17. paulinem October 24, 2012 at 5:44 pm

      Valarie ..who pays for the free health care here ..WE Do with taxes ..who should pay over in US those whom can well afford to via Taxes ..but I understand they do this via insurance whats the difference ie taxes via insurance .

      WHATS your problem with free health care .. and YES we pay for abortions etc as well and no I don’t like it, but its reality and its not going to change in a hurry NO matter whose in power here..I assure you the great catholic Bill English wont change this policy !

      I repeat I believe the US economic problems will only be resolved as they will be across the globe when we get rid of the neo liberalism economic system

      I remind you Valarie a lot of US policies and actions are not decided by the president but by forces behind him ..when you get elected to power in US you have to do a “deal with the devil” its the only reason they get elected re cost of election … and their is always a price to pay when you use others money favours are called in ….behind the scenes power is pulled…. But the President will be blamed for actions he really is not responsible for .. Corporate US decide policy there despite who gets elected and the abortion problem over there is as bad as it was nearly 20yrs ago NOTHING has changed ( as has NZs abortion problem)… you kidding yourself if you think other wise !

      RE who gets elected in truth its the US peoples problem not mine But to me Romney is a scary potential leader…

      Teresina a true Catholic will look at the BIG picture in their vote ..they wont hide I am a catholic (but in reality in name only) by voting for those opposed to abortion etc Abortion was made legal under 2 circumstances in 1977 has people like you achieved by voting pro life ..abortions are now 18,000 per annum or a class room of kids ..its got worse and parliament etc don’t want to know ..

      Peter Dunn is pro life ..he also is the biggest ripp of (I in for money and power) of all the politicians in Parliament …he voted to sell our state assets …it was obvious this guys a fraud years ago and I believe NO true catholic would vote for him despite him being so called anti abortion

    18. Teresina October 24, 2012 at 7:05 pm

      Nothing has changed as regards abortion, Paulinem, because too many Christians, so-called, continue to vote on party lines for their own selfish interests or where their political persuasions lie. I’ve been apolitical since I became involved in the prolife movement – obviously you learnt nothing from your involvement, and so it has been for you a complete waste of time.

    19. paulinem October 24, 2012 at 8:16 pm

      No it wasn’t a waste I learnt a lot Teresina I realised most of those involved in the pro life movement had a mob mentality they follow the leader regardless as you are showing. ie they didnt think for themselves..easy to hide behind I am abortion only but this is WRONG!

      YOU have a responsibility to vote for politicians and party polices that are best OVERALL for the WHOLE community, which includes many other issues besides abortion. Peter Dunn is an classic example for the need to consider many other issues besides abortion

      Christ would expect nothing less, from you as there are many problems in our community that Christ would expect you to become aware of and vote accordingly based on his Gospel message for living life. As christians we should be leaders in the community speaking out on the many issues from the economy environment and family life etc etc we are God’s voices in the community.

      Yes this could mean voting and suppoting for a politician who was pro abortion IF his/her parties policies were overall good for NZ. AND If he/she was a genuine caring person just a bit deluded re abortion

      Politicians are pro abortion because prolifers have not been evangelising them in a Christ like manner, as to the reality of abortion ie the killing of the unborn .

      Our abortion problem is Gods problem to fix

      I remind you its NOT politicians that abort the children or have abortions it is PEOPLE in our community who CHOOSE to kill their unborn or kill or support of the Killing other peoples unborn NO one forces them to do this they CHOOSE to do it themselves . PEOPLE Tersina PEOPLE

    20. Marty Rethul October 24, 2012 at 9:36 pm

      Ah, paulinem,

      you may have noticed that I’ve edited parts of your post (#13).

      Please try to keep your language in check, it would be appreciated!

      – Marty

    21. paulinem October 25, 2012 at 5:03 am

      Marty PLEASE explain I said and Jesus wept … this is a quote from the bible …how is this blaspheming PLEASE explain

      I was referring in that paragraph to Bush preaching he was pro Life but his record re Iraq Afghanistan Palestine is very very anti life ..

      I am not sure what and who is the Jesus you know but the Jesus I know and love would have wept at this deliberate destruction of life and above all the hypocrisy from those responsible preaching they were pro life.

      My referral to Bush in my comments was because I see Romney is a Bush clone other words a very dangerous person to have in power.

      The other one you deleted arnt you being a bit precocious is is a very common remark in hinterland for hyperbole information given out by people..heck the media regularly say this in various forums ie TV and newspapers.

      Is the reality you are upset as Marty I questioned your post with saying Obama was a baby killer as being ridiculous and you didnt like the truth being pointed out!!

    22. Valerie October 25, 2012 at 8:39 am

      Mrs Pauline,

      You don’t like Bush. Ok.
      You don’t like Romney. Ok.

      Do you like Obama?


    23. Valerie October 25, 2012 at 8:45 am

      Mrs Pauline,

      Yes this could mean voting and suppoting for a politician who was pro abortion IF his/her parties policies were overall good for NZ. AND If he/she was a genuine caring person just a bit deluded re abortion

      Let me rewrite your comment; and we’ll see if you accept it.

      “Yes this could mean voting and supporting for a politician who was anti-semetic IF his/her parties policies were overall good for NZ. AND If he/she was a genuine caring person just a bit deluded re killing the Jews

      Or try this one:
      “Yes this could mean voting and supporting for a politician who was pro killing 2-year-olds IF his/her parties policies were overall good for NZ. AND If he/she was a genuine caring person just a bit deluded re killing 2-year-olds

      Do you see your problem?


    24. Valerie October 25, 2012 at 8:48 am

      Mrs Pauline,

      Our abortion problem is Gods problem to fix

      Let me rewrite your comment:
      Our murder problem is Gods problem to fix
      Our child-sex-abuse problem is Gods problem to fix
      Our child-rape problem is Gods problem to fix

      Do you see your problem?


    25. bamac October 25, 2012 at 8:54 am


      The other one you deleted arnt you being a bit precocious is is a very common remark in hinterland for hyperbole information given out by people..heck the media regularly say this in various forums ie TV and newspapers.

      Is the reality you are upset as Marty I questioned your post with saying Obama was a baby killer as being ridiculous and you didnt like the truth being pointed out!!

      Because a remark or expression is used in various forms of media surely does not mean that it must thus be acceptable on BF.?

      The second quoted sentence … in questioning Marty’s statement re Obama being a baby killer you gave your opinion not a statement of proven fact so why would that be what upset Marty? Obama’s efforts to force US States to keep funding Family Planning clinics with their abortion services and doing his bit to extend FP’s work in overseas countries does seem to show that he is pro-abortion in my opinion.


    26. Abenader October 25, 2012 at 10:22 am

      Apparently, Our Holy Father (remember him?) has spoken. Let’s see what he has to say about “non-negotiables”
      My simple understanding is that there is a time for war (in the face of an aggressor). There is NEVER a time for abortion.

    27. Marty Rethul October 25, 2012 at 10:55 am


      It may be a biblical phrase, but it is often used in a manner unbecoming its lofty origin. The manner in which you used it (given tone is hard to infer via written text) left, for me, the intent doubtful.

      The fact that you swore in the same post did not help. In terms of the language employed by posters in a thread for which I am responsible, let me be clear: I will not tolerate people swearing on such threads.

      I think you’ll find the other thread posters at being frank would feel the same way.

    28. Helens Bay October 25, 2012 at 11:30 am

      “My simple understanding is that there is a time for war (in the face of an aggressor)”
      Not according to Jesus

    29. Abenader October 25, 2012 at 12:15 pm

      So, to follow your line of thought, if somebody (pardon this example) attacks your family/loved ones, you would……………..turn the other cheek (on the basis that you are in the vicinity when this occurs).
      And directly related to this, the world should just “turn the other cheek” when Adolf invaded.Again, if I understand you correctly, the church (by implication) should not ‘celebrate’ the battle of Lepanto?

      Next, I guess you gonna say that you are against the death penalty?

    30. Abenader October 25, 2012 at 12:31 pm

      To clarify:
      “There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia”.

    31. Dominican October 25, 2012 at 12:44 pm

      Yes,Abenader the Battle of Lepanto stopped the enemy at the door.
      And if we are realistic there will be more battles to fight.
      Some things are worth fighting for and some things worth fighting against.
      But do check out the Cathechism of the Catholic Church from about 230 et seq

    32. Valerie October 25, 2012 at 6:58 pm

      Mr Dominican,
      Thanks for suggestion. I have begun reading.

      Mr Abenader,
      Yes, one cannot be properly human in one’s ethics if one supports abortion or euthanasia, both of which are the direct killing of an innocent human being, i.e., murder. It’s like what Nazis were into, killing the handicapped, the elderly, the weak, the fragile.


    33. Helens Bay October 25, 2012 at 7:20 pm

      Where is the addendum to the commandment “Thou shall not KIll!

    34. Teresina October 25, 2012 at 8:04 pm

      Helens Bay, Christ gave to Peter the power of the keys to bind and loose. Here is a bit of an explanation of that:

      “Power of the Keys, a power given, according to Matthew 16:19, to St. Peter by Christ, understood as the power to admit or exclude from church membership (excommunicate), to set church policy and teachings (dogma), to render binding interpretations of Sacred Scripture (ancient rabbis were known to make binding interpretations of the Mosaic law), and to bind and loose sins. The verb loose (or freed) is used this way in John 20:23, Rev 1:5 and by the Early Church Fathers.[1] It is a power that Roman Catholics understand to have been conferred at first on St. Peter and afterwards on his successors in the office of the Roman Catholic Papacy. This power was given to St. Peter (originally named Simon) in Matthew 16:13 and following:

      13When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, 15 others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. 18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”[2]”

      What the Church says as regards self-defence is set out in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I am sure you are familiar with – that is the addendum that you asked about.

      “The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not.”65

      2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

      If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.66″

    35. Teresina October 26, 2012 at 9:20 am

      Paulinem, Archbishop Chaput has made a statement re voting for politicians in the US elections, urging Catholics to vote against pro abortion politicians:

      “Archbishop Chaput: Be Catholic before you are Democrat or Republican
      By Carl Bunderson and Matthew A. Rarey

      Rome, Italy, Oct 25, 2012 / 04:00 am (CNA/EWTN News).- As the country approaches election day in two weeks, Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of Philadelphia is encouraging Catholic voters to place their faith above their allegiance to political parties.

      “I’m always encouraging our people minimally to vote, maximally to run for political office, and make sure that they’re Catholic prior to being Democrat or Republican and that they put that into practice politically,” he told CNA in Rome on Oct. 22.

      Archbishop Chaput echoed the calls of other American bishops to have their flocks consider their faith in the voting booth.

      “We do believe in the separation of church and state, but we don’t believe in the separation of faith from our political life,” he said.

      “It’s very important for Catholics to make distinctions when voting that they never support intrinsic evils like abortion, which is evil in all circumstances. That’s a lot different from different economic policies” that people can reasonably disagree on, the archbishop explained.”

    36. Valerie October 26, 2012 at 12:16 pm

      Mrs Bay,

      Regarding the “Thou shalt not kill”, what do you make of Pres. Obama ordering the assassination of Osama Bin Laden? And approving of the killing (murdering) of many other men, women, and children, in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan?


    37. paulinem October 26, 2012 at 8:07 pm

      Teresina that was written for US voters on US elections NOT for us in NZ and it was one persons opinion ..thankfully we have several parties to choose between.The issue of pro life is important BUT so is the economy concern for the least of those in our society and of course the care of God’s environment

      I dont know a lot about US internal politics and DONT want to know the nitty gritty .. as I prefer to concentrate on NZ ..

      BUT in saying that I find it sad this guy doesn’t mention US environment record which is deplorable they are the biggest polluter in the planet and also their use of the FINITE global oil supplies which they use like gluttons this is I believe the REAL reason for the conflicts in Iraq Afghanistan ( a oil pipeline goes through this country from Russia ( which has the most oil supplies fields in the globe )…it is so US can control the globe oil supplies and assure they get the oil at prices they want !

      My final suggestion to you is to read the scripture reading for yesterdays mass at the end I put the reflection for yesterday from Marist messenger

      I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO READ “THE Gospel” ..being a christian is not easy it means stepping out of our comfort zone We are GODS voice in our community we MUST be aware of the wider problems in our society

      On second thought I decided to include the other readings as they are rather lovely and motivating

      READING 1 EPHESIANS 3:14-21

      Brothers and sisters: I kneel before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that he may grant you in accord with the riches of his glory to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inner self, and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the holy ones.
      What is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

      Now to him who is able to accomplish far more than all we ask or imagine, by the power at work within us, to him be glory in the Church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

      RESPONSORIAL PSALM 33:1-2, 4-5, 11-12, 18-19
      R. (5b) The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.

      Exult, you just, in the LORD;
      praise from the upright is fitting.
      Give thanks to the LORD on the harp;
      with the ten stringed lyre chant his praises.

      R. The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.

      For upright is the word of the LORD,
      and all his works are trustworthy.
      He loves justice and right;
      of the kindness of the LORD the earth is full.

      R. The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.

      But the plan of the LORD stands forever;
      the design of his heart, through all generations.
      Blessed the nation whose God is the LORD,
      the people he has chosen for his own inheritance.

      R. The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.

      But see, the eyes of the LORD are upon those who fear him,
      upon those who hope for his kindness,
      To deliver them from death
      and preserve them in spite of famine.

      R. The earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.

      GOSPEL LUKE 12:49-53

      Jesus said to his disciples: “I have come to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already blazing! There is a baptism with which I must be baptized, and how great is my anguish until it is accomplished!
      Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth?
      No, I tell you, but rather division. From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter
      and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”


      Thursday 25 October
      Ps.33, Ephesians 3:14-21, Luke 12:49-53

      Opposition and persecution

      We can’t expect being Christian to make us popular. Jesus certainly wasn’t. He made many enemies and they eventually had him killed. Like Jesus, we must expect opposition, persecution and ridicule. Our western world, in particular, is becoming increasingly hostile to Christian teaching and values. Being Christian is not easy in today’s society, but it wasn’t meant to be (“Take up your cross daily and follow me”).

      But always remember that we are not alone in the struggle. We have each other (our Christian community) and, most of all, we have the Lord (“I am with you always”).

      Marist Messenger – A Catholic Monthly Magazine

      AS Gods voice Teresina we MUST be aware and speak out on the many issues and scrutinise ALL policies of the parties and the candidates ..

      we have many so called pro life politicians like Bill English and Peter Dunn who know that there is NO will to bring the abortion debate into parliament so they wont have to stand up for their beliefs…. as Gods voice you need to be aware of the other issues also before you make your choice in an election…

      Abortion will change IN nz when the will is in the community to change re its GODS WILL AS WELL ..

    38. Teresina October 26, 2012 at 8:59 pm

      In case you didn’t notice, Paulinem, this post is on the US elections, and I am supporting what Marty says that he hopes the Catholic vote goes to Romney rather than Obama because of Obama is so pro-abortion – to the best of my knowledge Bill English isn’t a candidate in the US presidential elections. The points you mention pale into insignificance when you consider the numbers of abortions in the States every year. As Archbishop Chaput states, the right to life is a foundation issue and everything else is secondary. For that matter, you will be aware that in the past the NZ Bishops Conference has urged Catholics in NZ to vote for prolife candidates – that is what the gospel message is bound up in, protecting life from conception until natural death.

      “… people who are practicing Catholics cannot have alternate views on abortion,” he stated. “Such foundational issues have a huge impact and it’s important that Catholics make those distinctions.”
      “A person (candidate) might be right on a lot of secondary issues but wrong on the foundational issues. And if that’s the case, it would be very difficult for a Catholic to vote for someone who, for example, favors unlimited access to abortion … undermines the meaning of marriage or supports policies that really undermine the foundation of our culture.”

      Read more:

    39. Don the Kiwi October 27, 2012 at 7:44 pm

      Once again, another sad rant from Paulinem.
      Sorry Paulinem, you are wrong, again, on every count. Whether voting in USA or here, from the Catholic perspective, it doesn’t matter – the same principles apply, whether from Bp. Chaput in Pensylvania, or Bp. Pat Dunn in Auckland.

      The issue of pro life is important BUT so is the economy concern for the least of those in our society and of course the care of God’s environment

      Being pro-life is way more important than ANY economic consideration. Abortion is a crime against humanity that cries to God for vengeance. Abortion is one of the five totally non-negotiable principles, and we are bound under pain of mortal sin, to not vote for a political candidate who makes abortion one of his/her main platforms – Obama is such a politician. When it comes to politics in NZ, the only politicians that made it a policy platform was Helen Clark, and today, most Green Party members, and some Labour Party members. I am not aware that any National, Maori, (Peter Dunne) Party, NZ First or Conseravtive Party members make it a platform of their election policy. Most of the other parties don’t go there, because it is a hot potatoe.
      The US is not the greatest poluter on the planet despite popular anti-USA propaganda to the contrary – China is, probably folowed by India, Russia and any large emerging economy from the third world, whose pollution is not measured, because they are emerging. And contrary to popular belief, the US gets very little of its oil from the Middle East – the European countries do though. So the claim that the US has persued wars in the Middle East for oil are patently false, but it sounds good when the Green Party says it – the Greens are the most hypocritical of the political parties – they lie to disguise their communist agenda.

      And finally, thank you for the Scriptures – I read or hear them – each day at 8.00 am. Mass.
      God bless you, Paulinem.

    40. Teresina October 29, 2012 at 6:46 pm

      Don the Kiwi said:

      “Abortion is a crime against humanity that cries to God for vengeance. Abortion is one of the five totally non-negotiable principles, and we are bound under pain of mortal sin, to not vote for a political candidate who makes abortion one of his/her main platforms – Obama is such a politician.”

      A great post, Don. That sums it up succinctly.

    41. Helens Bay October 29, 2012 at 8:53 pm

      God does not do vengance

    42. Valerie October 29, 2012 at 9:04 pm

      Mrs Bay,

      Still waiting for an answer to #36.
      What do you make of Obama ordering and approving of killing?

      God does not do vengeance

      How do you know that? Is this your personal intuition? Or is it from a special revelation? Or from some Scripture? Or from some teaching of the Church?

      How do you know that?


    43. sienna October 29, 2012 at 9:29 pm

      Vengeance is mine says the Lord.Romans 12:19-20

    44. Helens Bay October 29, 2012 at 9:56 pm

      What do you make of John Key approving of killing?

    45. Valerie October 29, 2012 at 10:06 pm

      Mrs Bay,

      That’s irrelevant.
      Your red herring is a sad re-direct.
      It is an obvious manifestation of your lack of ability to properly engage in rational debate and dialogue.

      Why can’t you answer a simple question Mrs Bay?
      Why can’t you dialogue?

      Is it because your hero Obama is actually a killer and you can’t admit it?


    46. Teresina October 29, 2012 at 10:49 pm

      Helen’s Bay, the Catechism states that there are indeed four sins that cry out to God for vegence, one of them being murder:

      “Intentional homicide

      2268 The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69″


      “1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are “sins that cry to heaven”: the blood of Abel,139 the sin of the Sodomites,140 the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,141 the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.143

      1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

      – by participating directly and voluntarily in them;

      – by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;

      – by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;

      – by protecting evil-doers.”

    47. Valerie October 30, 2012 at 10:46 am

      Mrs Teresina,

      Thank you for that quote from the catechism.

      Vengeance, in this way, is talking about justice being administered by God to those who are cold-heartedly intent upon doing evil.

      Mrs Bay,
      This entry from Fr Z reminded me of you.
      Why is it that some people just can’t be honest about where they stand?
      Why wont Sr Simone Campbell answer a simple direct question about abortion


    48. Teresina October 30, 2012 at 12:54 pm

      That’s correct, Val, the catechism explains that vengeance is actually justice. Don has stated “vengeance” as per the catechism. So, the four sins that cry out to God for justice:

      “Most Catholics are familiar with the term mortal sin. Mortal sins deprive the soul of grace. They are serious transgressions of God’s law, done freely and deliberately with a clear understanding of what they are. Their result is to deny a soul entrance to heaven.

      There are particular mortal sins that are so evil that they are said to be sins that cry to heaven for vengeance: murder (Gn 4:10), sodomy (Gn 17:20-21), oppression of the poor (Ex 2:23), and defrauding workers of their just wages (Jas 5:4).”

    49. Teresina October 30, 2012 at 12:59 pm

      As Fr Z says to Sr Simone Campbell (see Val’s link above), you may play with words but, “you can’t fool God”!

    50. John Jensen October 30, 2012 at 3:55 pm

      Here is an excellent discussion of justice and vengeance by Catholic philosopher Ed Feser.